The Hidden Blade Assassin's Creed in Depth

It also doesnt help that I cant record any more, so I dont really pay as much attention to the gameplay as I usually would. In the other games I would play them to the extreme, figuring out really stealthy routes for the Templar towers and such. In this one if you get seen once while taking the forts, the entire friggen continent is after you and you pretty much gotta kill everyone in the most anticlimatic way. Also imo the forts aren't really designed that well in terms of stealth gameplay purposes, now ACB towers, they were damn good.

Im planning on replaying the entire series again soon but how im going to do it is study the time periods history and characters a lot more in depth before I start playing, I barely know anything about the history behind these events so I feel more productive doing it this way.

Quite a few of the forts can be done stealthily. There is a delay on the explosions, so you just better be out of eyesight (hidden) when it goes off. (and stay hidden until the bells stop ringing). If you are stealthy enough, there's no need to get into a full out battle on the forts. It just takes a LOT of time.

Disclaimer: I've only done 2 of the 7 forts completely stealthily without combat. I plan to do the same for the other 5.

Only other option left is to make funny videos revolving around glitches and putting dialogue boxes near them.

That sounds good. Can you share your knowledge with us afterwards? It's nice to continually know more and more about the actual history.

Machinima basically has that covered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_yA_wg-5i4

So this was on the Assassin's Creed Initiates website...

Desmond's hidden blade broken, as well as his bag open and his body being taken away by Abstergo agents.

So judging by this picture, we can assume that Juno has been defeated/captured/temporary neutralized. And since Abstergo still has the power to send in a squad to retrieve Desmond's body, we can assume that there power/influence still remains.

Either Williams and co. manage to get captured by them, or they're on the run.

The saga continues...to get milked.

They had a huge head start to leave the Temple, so I assume they made it out and escaped. Abstergo knows about the Temple because they hogged the power cube thingies and most likely have records from Haytham's experience with it.

Juno is building her new empire, so she has no influence at all most likely. Abstergo has stated before that they can use the Animus on corpses for genetic memory retrieval (even if it's more difficult). I'm sure that they're going to use his remains to understand the First Civilization DNA better. If they didn't need him anymore, they would've left him.

Ubi needs to stop messing around and give us an AC game set in the First Civ time. Oh but no, that would make far too much sense and they'll no doubt save it for the final game in the series.

That would be more justified if the games were about fictional places. Remember that the point of the locations are to recreate as many (nearly) historically-accurate cities from human history. Having a game set in a made up place kind of ruins that immersion, because we don't connect to it.

Oh, for sure. While that's definitely been true so far, I'm pretty sure it will happen eventually. I mean, there's almost no way that it won't. Now that Juno controls the world, we're going to need to discover the First Civ's weaknesses. The easiest way to do that would be to go back to the First Civ time. While the series' big draw initially was historical recreations of awesome time periods, the devs should not limit themselves to doing just that. I mean, they tried to make America an interesting place, but the cities just did not have the same feeling/emotion/spirit as past Assassin's Creeds. The Frontier was the best part, and for all of Assassin's Creed's historical accuracy, most of that was just well-placed trees and rocks.

History's a fun thing. It doesn't need to be the be-all and end-all. Just my thought.
As far as "Having a game set in a made up place kind of ruins that immersion, because we don't connect to it", that can be gotten through by just looking at the true storyline of Assassin's Creed. I mean it's not even about the history anymore. It's about First Civ, Pieces of Eden and DNA. Pretty sure it's always been about that. The parts that were totally mind-blowing didn't break immersion for me, they helped intensify the feeling of discovery and new information. Maybe that was just me, but I'd like to see what other people think.

If/when they do let us explore a First Civ city, it'll most likely be another linear set of missions.

Only if Ubisoft doesn't pull their heads outta their asses.

That seems like a bad word here.

Love the phrase! It's now my signature.

New Assassin's Creed has new hero, time period, and a "new team" working on it.

So they have a story set up and everything planned out. No word on if the Assassin will be an ancestor to a descendant like Desmond or not.

Because the general opinion around this place is that non-linearity is at the core of the AC franchise.

Yeah, and fans keep drinking Ubisoft's 'milk'.

The only reason I continuously buy Assassin's Creed games is because it would break my heart to give up on my favorite series of all time. I loved AC1. I loved ACII. I was a little worried with Brotherhood but it was awesome. I was even more worried with AC:R. When AC3 came out, I played through it trying to squeeze out as much Assassin's Creed-ness as I could from it.

And I'm gonna put myself down for a guaranteed purchase of AC4 ONLY BECAUSE I WANT IT to be good. I want to HOPE and BELIEVE and have FAITH in AC4 being a great Assassin's Creed game.

Right now what's giving me the most hope is that Ubisoft is starting fresh with brand new protagonists, time periods and everything, as well as their Alice project which Corey May is heading, while not writing a script himself. All of the above would logically mean that there's a fair chance AC4 will impress me. I have hope.

I just hope my hope won't be crushed, you know?

That's what is giving me some hope. They're starting over with a new story that doesn't necessarily have to depend on Desmond's. We can look at it in a new way, theorize new directions the story will be heading, all that good stuff that kept everyone on these forums when AC2 came out.

I completely agree with you, DAZ. I won't throw in the towel on these games until the stealth absolutely 100% doesn't exist. I've loved the Assassin's Creed story since it started. So different, so...encompasing (in terms of history and connecting it to fantasy) I am a little uneasy about how they're going to put stealth in this next segment, but like you guys, I have hope. Also I apologize for such a long absence, life has kept me from re-immersing into this fine society of wetworkers, but I think I'll be here for a while now that things have slowed down a bit. LBTC!!

So I was playing ACIII when I noticed a gaping plot-hole:

During the mission where Haytham and Connor go to a warehouse to (un-stealthity) take-down Benjamin Church, Connor mentions that his mom is dead. He believes that Charles Lee did this, and Haytham ordered the attack.

However, Haytham knows the truth. He must've known that it was Washington who ordered the attack. All those years, he must've known. He could have asked Charles Lee, or anyone of the Founding Fathers, or snuck into Washington's records.

Here's my question: why didn't Haytham prove Connor wrong IMMEDIATELY after the 1st time he brought up his mom's death? After escaping the burning warehouse/gotten the supplies back, he could've explained it all to him. Maybe there'd be a mission where they both sneak into Washington's camp.

Connor's a pretty arrogant prick. So explaining all of this to him would've been difficult to get across. He would've said something like, "Do not attempt to blind me with your false words, father."

And I think that Haytham reading aloud that paper in Washington's tent is an attempt at proving to Connor that the people he thinks are perfect and wonderful, as well as the people that are "evil" (Haytham, Lee, etc), aren't. Of course, Connor looked at both of them, thinking of his people first, and labelled them both as meanie heads.

I thought it was funny that he left Haytham and Washington in an awkward silence. I'd have liked to see that scene play out.

At that (or any) point, I don't think Haytham gave a damn what Connor thought, as long as they achieved Haytham's goals. If Connor thinks he's bad but is still helping him, why add more information. Attend to the mission at hand. No nonsense. That's Haytham.

This has probably been discussed, but:
"In time, Minerva discovered that there is a pattern of numbers and equations that define existence. If one could comprehend these numbers, time itself could be tamed. The sixth solution was to attempt to go back in time to prevent the disaster before it could occur. Unfortunately the means would be too dangerous, and so this solution was also abandoned.

Minerva later founded one final solution, but it was never tested. Minerva created a pedestal, the Eye, that would allow one who has the genetic material to manipulate the numbers to protect the Earth. However, before Minerva could test it, she discovered that Juno had tampered with it. While the patterns to save the world were still there, the patterns would also allow Juno to have total control and power. Minerva forced the last solution to be abandoned."

Source: http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Temple

I was under the impression that Juno automated the tower-building process and simply needed Desmond to free her so she could activate them. But this is even more interesting.
So I assume this means Juno is now beyond even a normal TWCB in terms of what she can do. Very interesting.

Me too. I expected the prologue epilogue animation of the earth to show four towers collecting the solar flare.

I've just finished the main story. I started seven weeks ago, I must have played a hundered hours at least, but finally I played through the last four chapters in the past three days.

Stealth and everything stealth-related is great. They made eavesdropping into a game as opposed to just a cutscene that it is in AC. I like that. I find sneaking into the forts really difficult, but it's good. I thought that AC couldn't be improved, and I was wrong. All that great stealth mechanics is really an improvement.

Combat is okay. Connor is a really shitty fighter compared to Altair, mostly because entering and exiting combat is much more limited (there's no manual lock-on), he has much less control over positioning (no forward-step, no grab and throw, no dodge), and mid-animation immunity is much diminished (maybe just during the forward roll?).

But what kind of saves combat is that you can move in and out of stealth much more dynamically than in AC. Corner-hiding while in open conflict is fun. It's unfortunate that the enemies stay together too much. It's too difficult to separate the pursuers into small groups.

But I think that it's reasonable to have such a lame fighter paired with the improved stealth. Connor has to rely more on stealthily preparing the situation, so that he can then finish the combat quickly.

The story is meh, I don't care, it's funny how the assassin's ideology of "freedom" is about beating up the merchant so that the thieves can steal his stuff, but whatever. It's hard to criticize such a surface issue when there's so much wrong, very wrong and deeply wrong on the level of the gameplay.

I mean come on. The missions. You have to walk up to a dog and press X. Because it's rabid. And you need to put it down. And that's the mission. Seriously. And then you need to pick up a sick guy and bring him I don't know where. To the hospital. And that's a mission.

But no. I mean, good. Okay. Sure. But you're not seriously saying that the last assassnation, of Charles Lee is a linear scripted chase, and the main restraint won't let you veer off the path, not even a bit, or else you get desynchronized, and then, at the end I don't even get to press X. Literally. I do not even get to press X. Twice. Twice I don't get to do anything to do the killing. And it's a typical ACIII mission. Not just some joke, or something.

But there's worse: The escaping part has been mostly dropped from the game. They put in extra effort to remove it. Has this game been made by people who hate AC? There's everything in place for the escape after many of the major assassinations. There's the NPC AI, there's the terrain with freerunning, and there's the hiding mechanics. But no, there's a cutscene and no escape. That is inexcusable. That one is absolutely inexcusable.

So, yeah. I like the hunting. And the ship is fun too. I wouldn't really count them as part of the AC-sequel, more like some add-ons, but there's nothing wrong with them in themselves.

Many times it's obvious that they made an extra effort to make the missions linear.

Like when you have to go to each sick sailor and heal them, or go to each of the children and bribe them for the doctor, you can only do it in a certain sequence.

Or when the huntress goes missing before her wedding. The task is to look for clues. I go to her hunting place, check her hunting stand, her other hunting stand, I search for the clue all around the area, and then, when I finally check the map, it turns out that the clue is back in the manor, and after checking that, she will appear on her hunting stand, exactly where I was looking for her in the first place.

Why?

Did anyone else feel as though you have more accurate movement control in this game as opposed to others? I found the "don't shove anyone" sync objectives to be really easy and fun due to being able to weave between crowds without hitting anyone. I think it's because you don't full turn as quickly as before, first connor goes into a sort of strafe. Of course it may all just be animations, but going back to any previous game in the series, I feel more sluggish and feel like turns are more gradual.

Of course, a big part of the change in feel is the detailed new animations and different camera, but that's not all, I don't think.

Are you kidding me? Personally, I think those are the absolute worst of the optional synchronizations.

Last time I checked, this franchise was suppose to be built around the idea of interacting with large goups of people, and not avoiding them. I know that one might wanna avoid bumping into crowds and weave around them for fun and a challenge, but when you make it a mandatory requirement to get 100% synch., then it just becomes ridiculous. Seeing that red X over that optional synch. is disheartening.

I think he's saying that at least that in this game you can accomplish those objectives with ease (or at least accomplish them) because you have more control of your character. If it were an objective for Ezio or Altair mechanics, it'd be next to impossible.

Honestly though, I think a lot of it has to do with one button running, so you have full control over the camera angle at all times.

This.

I thought of that too, but I feel like it's a change to the overall way that you move, not simply what you're holding. The response to left-stick movement is the change I feel, not what my right hand is freed up to do (though that is also useful)

As for the full-synch obective, ehhh, I dunno. If an Assassin is in a chase it's cool to think of them ducking and weaving through crowds without ever disturbing anyone to get to their target without ever slowing down.

Not getting full-sycnh is somewhat disheartening, but in all honesty getting full synch has driven me to understand more about how the game works and do things I never would have done otherwise. If it's obvious I blundered through a mission, generally full-synch is going to tell me so and I'm going to go back and learn to do it stylishly and take advantage of that set-up that they designed to enable you to do the mission while killing only 3 people, or silently kill all my targets, or reach my target faster.

It's much like rankings at the end of a Sonic game, or my favorite game, Yoshi's Island.

I think that it would be best if there were a hard mode or new-game plus that opened up the full synch objectives (and made them a bit more basic to account for harder difficulty) so that you didn't ever see full synch stuff if you played on normal/your first time through.

This stuff has a place, but I think people would appreciate just being able to ignore it.

And there's no reason they can't just ignore it ...

Ah, you would think so, wouldn't you? But as Joey said, visible big red x's happening after each mission can discourage people.

That's actually literally the way that Yoshi's Island worked.

If you didn't collect everything in a certain category then that little box at the completion screen would be crossed out with a big x.

It's a very old-school game design thing to have, and hiding it is a very modern game design convenience. But I think that segregating that whole system into the "hardcore" version of the game would pretty much nullify all complaining about it. (And there is a lot) Cause then people would have to admit that they DID ask to be challenged.

I was just thinking about a fictional explanation for this: maybe at the start of the game there would be a little bit of dialogue explaining that the animus is having "synch compatibility problems" or something and that complete synch will not be able to be reached, though all the memories are still intact.

And when you're on the harder difficulty that changes to an affirmation that the animus has properly connected with the memories, which will now be more like the way the ancestor actually experienced them and that full synch will be available.

It's not necessary, but it would be a cool little thing to put in

That's a pretty good idea, Calvar. I was thinking along the same lines. How 'bout this:

After completing the main story line, Absergo has reveiled a new program in the Animi: the Animus Time-Attack. Complete certain missions with certain (challenging) restrictions, such as:
- not being seen
- not taking damage
- not using projectile
- not using group factions/assassins.

When people ask for more difficulty, what they were expecting were stronger and tougher enemies and more challenging stealth opportunities...not this ridiculous concept about avoiding crowds, completing it within a certain time limit, and avoiding damage. People are gonna be doing that in the 1st place! They'll post Youtube videos about ghosting through forts, avoiding all gunfire, and not being detected at all! The player themselves go beyond what the game has programmed for them.

I'm confused, you said in one sentence that "not taking damage" should be an objective, and then in the next you say that "not taking damage" is a bad full synch objective?

Other than that, yeah, but I was actually thinking that the "higher difficulty" would include increased detection speed, harder to kill enemies that do more damage, and things like that. So it's both an increase in how hard it is to normally do things, but you also have some secondary objectives.

Oh, my bad. I meant to say that the optional synch "to not take any damage" is a bad one, because people who wanna ghost-blitz their way through the mission aren't gonna take damage to begin with.

And yeah, an increase detection speed and damage output would be nice.

I've mainly seen "don't take any damage" used to discourage people from falling when free-running and to stay out of hazards that damage them, or during something like the run across the battlefield at Breed's Hill.

Those are rather intelligent ways of using it, in my opinion. Most objectives can be good if used properly.

Re: ACB dialogue in an AC3 light.

The ending of ACB sees Desmond under the control of Juno and stabbing Lucy.

Immediately after stabbing Lucy, Desmond is told, "It is done. The way lies all before you. Only she remains to be found. Awaken the Sixth. Go ALONE."

Initially, I thought of this as humans have 5 senses. Awaken the 6th sense which TWCB possess (absolute knowledge). She also tells him throughout the games (I think in AC3 now) that humans were designed lacking one of the senses TWCB possess... which confirmed all this.

BUT.....

Throughout the course of opening up the Grand Temple in AC3, Juno tells Desmond of 6 ways TWCB had developed to save the world from the catastrophe they faced. Here is the sixth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRm06djVPBA

For those that don't want to watch the video... Juno's dialogue (the plan):
What is consciousness but a series of electrical impulses?
And the body a vessel to hold these sparks.
But it is weak. In time it decays and crumbles into dust.
We asked ourselves then: what if it might be replaced with something stronger? Something better?
So we forged a new vessel. [here she opens her arms indicating that the grand temple is this vessel]
One that might endure.
It proved easy enough to enter.
But to leave... to leave required something more... something wrong.
And so this too, they abandoned.
I wonder, though, were they right to turn away...

As we know by now... Juno placed her consciousness into the grand temple and manipulated Desmond for several games now to get him to release her. She enacted the SIXTH option of preserving consciousness... the thing required to leave... the something wrong... was the death of someone else. Way back in ACB, something we interpreted as an extra sense (as humans were designed with only five) was really Juno telling Desmond that, when given the knowledge of the six plans to save the world, it was his duty to awaken the sixth. Juno used this sixth option and spent every chance she got talking to Desmond to get him to release her.

Awaken the Sixth = release me from the temple (you will die)
Go Alone = you are the only one that can do it (high concentration of TWCB DNA, etc)
Find Her = Find me / find the temple
Only she remains to be found... she = the temple / Juno

Lucy's intentions were likely to get in the way, not because of a love interest preventing Desmond from finding Eve... but by preventing Desmond from getting to the Temple to release Juno. Lucy being a Templar... she would have delivered Desmond and the Apple into Abstergo hands when they were still in Italy.

EDIT: I don't think this precludes anything Clay said about finding Eve. In fact, there might still is an Eve out there...

You're spot on!

One detail, in one of those talks Desmond has with Juno, the cutscene keeps going after she says her thing, and Desmond is talking to the others via headset, reacting to what she said. He reveals that when he was forced to stab Lucy, the reason he relented control was because Juno showed him a vision of Lucy stealing the Apple, taking it to be used in the satellite, and then the satellite failing. This makes sense when you consider than TWCB tried to send up a whole fleet of PoEs to protect the earth but were unable to maintain control.

Also I think that Clay was indeed talking about Juno, as TLA shows she was the one who gave him his mission to help Desmond.

(would also explain why a PoE was once found on the moon.)

Also, I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly, but I think Juno has increased powers in her current form. I think she was the one who stopped the flare through that reality bending POE technique, only it appears her will alone was enough to do so, wheras TWCB of the past needed to control others to do this, and even then could hardly stop such a huge event.

Perhaps a bit OT, but I thought you might find this interesting:
In ACIII, Achilles is sometimes referred to as "the old man on the hill".


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_ad-Din_Sinan

Achillies is my favorite of all the Mentor-Type Assassins in these games. I always thought the "Man On The Hill" stuff sounded pretty cool!

I finally borrowed AC3 from a friend, and this must have been one of the most boring games I've played ever. It's just a bunch of cutscenes with 30 seconds of gameplay in between, and that isn't very engaging either, and most of the time the gameplay consists of you walking somewhere and the times you aren't walking, you're doing some type of tutorial thing. There is nothing engaging at all from what I've seen so far. The story moves at a snail's pace and the gameplay is just endless tutorials.

At this point I feel like I'm just better off watching the movie.

The tutorial stuff is light on real gameplay, but I liked it simply as a way to set up the world. I really felt like I got a great picture of the time and setting and character of Haytham and Connor from the intro, and by the time it opened up fully, I was excited to go do more stuff. Those looking for a more immediate jump into full gameplay will be disappointed, but I was happy that at least none of my combat or movement abilities were locked out from the get go.

But really, you can do quite a lot after you get to america as haytham. There's not a lot of simple walking missions there, you do some old-school eavesdropping and tailing missions early on.

The most linear and plot-heavy things were the Opera house and the ship, for sure, though I especially loved the ship, since it felt like a BBC drama a lot of the time, with a mystery and investigations and a climactic battle.

But yes, the first bit of the game is pretty tutorialish, and there are quite a few cutscenes, though I think most of them are pretty good at building characters and advancing the plot.

It becomes a lot more open when you get to connor as a teen.

Not saying you'll like it, (Actually I'm sure you won't) even though they've made some tweaks and changes that directly address some things you've complained about in the past, just saying it opens up.

I'm now up to the point where Connor is a teen, and it's actually pretty decent. It's not mindblowingly awesome, but for now it's okay.

I liked meeting Achilles

Good. Keep an open mind until it really opens up in the next two sequences.

You really have to work for your robes in this one.

I wonder if you'll like Connor. Some people just don't seem to be able to understand or relate to his perspective, demeanor, or actions.

I've decided to give AC3 another chance. I feel like I haven't been very fair in judging the game, because my playthroughs were obstructed by slow gameplay and cutscenes, due to the pc I used to run it on. I've downloaded it on my laptop now via Uplay, and it runs a lot better than what I was used to. I hope this second chance can make me appreciate AC3 after all.

I think we'll all be looking forward to your re-evaluation then, gerund.

I'm doing a bit more free-roaming now. I notice a lot more bugs, but some of the graphic elements are freaking beautiful. Last night, I was stalking a fox through the snow, and it jumped up and landed nose-first deep into the snow. It's the little things like that that I'm appreciating very much now.

EDIT: btw, not everything is fast on a laptop. Achilles still walks slow as shit.
It used to be worse though.