Gender roles in AC games (and video games in general)
Since we've completely derailed the E3 Unity thread, let's move the conversation over here. I don't want to argue or anything, but lots of people have said interesting things. I'll add my 2 cents when I want, it's not like I want to drive the conversation, just move it from derailing other threads.
I'm on record as saying I couldn't give two shits whether the protagonist in a video game is male or female. Will it make me want to buy an AC game more if there were a female lead? No. Less? Also no. I don't care.
If the market research says that some people would be less inclined to do so, then I don't blame Ubisoft (and other publishers) for sticking with male protagonists. It's all about the Benjamins, and I'm fine with that.
To me it's the exact same arguments for/against yearly releases. If it makes more money to have a guy in your game, you're gonna put a guy in your game. When you start losing money, change.
Also, for the record, the lead in one of my favorite recent series is female. That would be Chell from the Portal series.
“Force has no place where there is need of skill." Herodotus
So AC sells well solely because of the fact that there are male protagonists in the main games? Not because they're fun? That's the part I don't understand. The character's sex does not reflect the rest of the game.
I'm not so sure that Ubisoft is on the money (so to speak) when they design games with a male audience in mind. For one thing, I think they're somewhat deluding themselves that their decision-making is driven by market considerations and the decisions they make are pragmatic and rational. I believe that most people's decision-making is mainly driven by emotion, prejudice and pre-conceived notions that they are usually not consciously aware of. Business leaders like to pat themselves on the back that they go by the facts and the numbers, but I think that's mainly mythologizing.
For another thing (and this is particularly true for the video game industry), they're using classic circular logic. They design games with a male audience in mind (including all the objectification and sexualization of female side characters 
), then use sales of those very games to maintain that females don't buy games. Well, duh!
For another thing (and this is particularly true for the video game industry), they're using classic circular logic. They design games with a male audience in mind (including all the objectification and sexualization of female side characters
They don't give enough options to allow female gamers to enjoy themselves as much as men do. They have to put up with it like every other mainstream thing. It's silly to say, "that's how it is, so get used to it". We shouldn't have to. If it were reversed (females being represented in 99% of media), we men would complain/put up with the same grievances.
At least films like Hunger Games, X-Men, and Lucy show the movie crowd is up for that change. Even the Alien movies centered around Sigourney Weaver's Ripley (the newest game is about her daughter, even). The seeds are planted and they've been accepted. Let's keep it going so it's more even.
So AC sells well solely because of the fact that there are male protagonists in the main games? Not because they're fun? That's the part I don't understand. The character's sex does not reflect the rest of the game.
That's not the point. The point is that AC sells better because of the fact that there are male protagonists. It's not like it wouldn't sell well otherwise.
I believe that most people's decision-making is mainly driven by emotion, prejudice and pre-conceived notions that they are usually not consciously aware of.
This happens with everyone's decision making, but that doesn't mean everyone's decisions are incorrect, or that decisions cannot be influenced heavily by data you've gathered.
They design games with a male audience in mind (including all the objectification and sexualization of female side characters Sick ), then use sales of those very games to maintain that females don't buy games. Well, duh!
Well, as a company you don't want to alienate your main audience, so in this context it makes sense. I mean, it's absolutely true what you're saying, but it's like saying: "You make Hummers cost a lot, and then poor people don't buy any. And then you say 'well Hummers are a product for rich people'!" Which is, of course, kicking in an open door. Ubi makes games for a male audience. Should the female audience become sufficiently large (as likely evidenced by other games that sell well), Ubi might start making games for that audience as well, but right now they want to maintain their current audience and grow it if they can, but not at the (perceived) risk of losing part of their current audience.
At least films like Hunger Games, X-Men, and Lucy show the movie crowd is up for that change
If the crowd is up for a change, the industry will eventually catch on. This, again, is free market in action. It'll happen gradually over time as female leads become more "mainstream" so to speak.
I guess the short version of my opinion is:
Yes, Ubi could make a main console title with a female protagonist, but that's not in line with their final goal and hence they don't do it.
Ubi makes games for a male audience. Should the female audience become sufficiently large (as likely evidenced by other games that sell well), Ubi might start making games for that audience as well, but right now they want to maintain their current audience and grow it if they can, but not at the (perceived) risk of losing part of their current audience.
I don't know where you're getting your assumptions here, but I think I've met more female fans of Assassin's Creed than male. If not that, then it's pretty even. Either way, they love the series as much as a regular on THB, but still wish they'd get a female Assassin to play as. From a business standpoint, you want to reach out to as many possible types of people there are to buy your product. If you only cater to one group, it'll gain this negativity they've been getting for the reasons we're discussing.
We all agree that it's a business decision, but that doesn't mean they have to hold back their creativity and not explore new options. The time is now to make this decision and gain new fans that see this series as "Macho guy kills 5 guys and ALIENS". They don't have to change an already developed game coming out in the next few years (they've probably got actors signed on already or animations finished), but any that they haven't designed a character for should be considered.
The first AC revolutionized how we look at games and what they could be like. It's a pioneer franchise that brings new ideas to the game world as a whole. Revolutionize itself and give us a character we're not used to playing as. With a game coming out every single year, a female-led title won't affect the ones that arrive afterwards. AC is a cash cow, so they won't need to worry about a slight loss compared to the one before it (AC is their best selling franchise for Christ's sake even with the terrible entries). It'll still sell millions of copies, it'll bring in new and interested gamers, and it'll tell the industry that women are strong, too. They'd gain so much respect as well.
Honestly, nothing will be bad as Revelations. Clearly they've learned from those mistakes.
At a certain point, being so cynical that you dont bother to demand more from a company is just enabling them. Bigots get to intimidate them into thinking straight white men are 'safe' because the bigots speak loudest. The acunity controversy began off a misunderstanding, but it kicked off a larger discussion. And we need more of that, bc it being so easy to start a controversy shows how fucked up things are.We need to speak up LOUDER than the bigoted trolls when homogenous protagonist 32 is introduced, not say 'this is just how it is' or any of the other usual self-fulfilling prophecies. Because if we dont want narrow-minded people to represent us, we must represent ourselves.
In the case of such a big game, a few voices can speak far louder and more eloquently than a few wallets. It must be clear what we want.
Remember, they didnt have trouble justifying women in co op bc women are harder to animate than men, but because they chose a male main character first, making his animation (and gear and outfits, which were undoubtedly the more expensive consideration) a greater priority. It was an uninspired choice of lead that led to this, not complete grossness. I believe they are not so lost that this discusion is hopeless.
On twitter, every ac dev i follow humbly acknowledged the criticism and discouraged jerks from attacking critics. There's definitely reason to expect more.
and thanks to those of you who backed me up!
Very good points, Calvar. The loudest people tend to be the most cynical about any new ideas. It's about time that trend changes.
If they don't make a female main character in one of the next few games I'm a monkey's uncle.
If they don't make a female main character in one of the next few games I'm a monkey's uncle.
Fun fact that I forgot about until now: The original Assassin's Creed was going to be a Prince of Persia prequel/spin-off game with a female protagonist. It also mentions co-op as an early concept that also didn't make it into the game.
If I cared, I would say so. But the point is, I don't care one way or another.
I don't have the market research or cost-benefit analyses in front of me (which I sincerely hope exists) that leads to these decisions.
Would it be nice to see a female protagonist in a major game franchise such as AC? Sure. But I'm not getting up in arms over it because, frankly, it doesn't matter to me at all. A female wouldn't make me want the game more, but it also wouldn't make me want the game less.
“Force has no place where there is need of skill." Herodotus
If I cared, I would say so. But the point is, I don't care one way or another.I don't have the market research or cost-benefit analyses in front of me (which I sincerely hope exists) that leads to these decisions.
Would it be nice to see a female protagonist in a major game franchise such as AC? Sure. But I'm not getting up in arms over it because, frankly, it doesn't matter to me at all. A female wouldn't make me want the game more, but it also wouldn't make me want the game less.
You must be my twin brother from another mother or something.
Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
If I cared, I would say so. But the point is, I don't care one way or another.I don't have the market research or cost-benefit analyses in front of me (which I sincerely hope exists) that leads to these decisions.
Would it be nice to see a female protagonist in a major game franchise such as AC? Sure. But I'm not getting up in arms over it because, frankly, it doesn't matter to me at all. A female wouldn't make me want the game more, but it also wouldn't make me want the game less.
You must be my twin brother from another mother or something.
We're triplets.
I don't have the market research or cost-benefit analyses in front of me (which I sincerely hope exists) that leads to these decisions.
To further elaborate, if this research doesn't exist and they still are hesitant to do it, then shame on them. They need to do the research and base decisions on that, not predispositions.
But again, not my capital investments. I don't blame them for looking out for numero uno.
If they would sell 300,000 copies less than normal (just a 3% decrease from Black Flag's 10M+), that's a loss of $18M. It may only be a 3% income change, but $18,000,000 is $18,000,000. You don't get to be a CEO of a top company by throwing away $18,000,000.
“Force has no place where there is need of skill." Herodotus
I'm a male, and I don't particularly prefer male playable characters to female ones. I'm not sure that most males do. Do they? Are there any empirical numbers on that?
Both of my most favorite characters in Skyrim are female (one is an archer and thief, the other one's mostly an assassin and illusionist), both my characters in Neverwinter are female (rogues), and I wouldn't have preferred a male protagonist in Tomb Raider.
I think that the bottleneck for female main characters is probably just a creative one. It's the writing. If you have a good story for it, and it's a well written female character, I don't see why most male gamers would like it less than an equally well written male character. There's something sexy and exciting about killing men with a female hero, and I don't think that that's a particularly abnormal sentiment.
The trope of the male hero is just simply more traditional, it has a richer literary tradition. I don't think that there's anything more to its prevalence than that.