The Hidden Blade Assassin's Creed in Depth

2 things i noticed
1 this is before ac1 but altair does the air assassination and the ledge assassination
2 this is before ac1 but altair is very wise and humble you hear al mualim say why did you give him a chance while in the beginning of ac he kills that man

This is 6 years before AC1, before Altair has become all prideful and such from being a master assassin. After he fights off the invading Templars, he becomes a master assassin right there.

Also, Altair only wrote down the ledge assassiantion and air assassination in the codex later. That doesn't mean he only learned how to do them when he wrote them down. Ubisoft KNOWS about the codex, and by showing him using those abilities now, they're saying that he knew how to use them as early as this. Abstergo's animus didn't show him doing that, no, but abstergo's animus also didn't show his proper face and voice, so there.

Yes, but in Altair's Codex, he specifically writes:

...I have also worked with Malik to describe new methods of assassination: from on high, from ledges, and from hiding places. Basic movements, but critical nonetheless...

- pg. 13

Therefore, he would have no knowledge of how to preform a ledge and air assassination. As for the Animus theory, that could be true. Abstergo wanted to get the location of the map, so it's possible that they were speeding through Altair's memories so fast that some of the memories (like assassination techniques) were not properly rendered (after all, it did keep overheating). Altair knew how to ledge and air assassinate from the beginning, but the Animus 1.28 wasn't able to render it, and as a result, became inaccessible. Of course, this is just a theory.

But it's probably unlikely, since Altair "...worked with Malik to descirbe NEW methods of assassination...".

We should keep in mind that this is Gamescon gameplay - meaning that it could change when the final product hits the store shelves. By the time that happens, we could have Altair's face and American accent in the first game.

I would like to emphasize a different part of that sentence "...worked with Malik to DESCRIBE new methods of assassination..."
New in that case is obviously subjective. He's talking about new to his underlings. He describes the movements as basic. It's not a stretch of the imagination that he knew about these moves for a long time, and that other assassins did too, although the moves were never formally taught, till now. And now Ubisoft has confirmed that he did indeed know about them for a long time.

And the animus 1.Bl3arg or whatever it was actually did allow Altair to do an air assassination. It just required a lot less height or else it didn't work. That can be attributed to animus one point whatever not having the same level of control as Rebecca's versions, which is true.

You have an answer for everything, don't you Calvar?

I've come to that opinion through some discussion with people on the ubisoft forums. Bloodlines shows that Altair knew those moves before he wrote the codex, and the person who wrote the codex for bloodlines is the person writing the Brotherhood script, so if he says that Altair can do everything at 17, the implication is that he didn't mean that Altair only created them when he wrote the codex, right?

Of course, there are other explanations, it could be that Desmond's sync with Altair allows him to do moves from later in his life at any time.

But the reason I don't think this is likely is because the guard in the game is positioned in such a way that it only makes sense to do a ledge grab. And guard positions are canon, so it makes sense.

If I have any flaws in my logic, I would be happy for you to point them out, Joey. I don't say what I think because I want to be right, I say it because as far as I can tell right now, I'm right. If someone shows me I'm not, I'll admit it.

But if that flashback takes place before Altaïr becomes a Master Assassin, how come he already has the old syrian sword that Al Mualim returns to him when his rank is fully restored in AC ? Plus, if it takes place before the events of AC, why does he climb as fast as Ezio ? He climbs "slowly" in AC, and in the Acre dream in ACII, so it isn't an animus problem. It probably doesn't even have a coherent explanation storywise.

is it possible the makers of ac didn´t thought it good over or maybe they thought nobody would notice it

"Of course, there are other explanations, it could be that Desmond's sync with Altair allows him to do moves from later in his life at any time."

That covers your point, Sync.

I think it's a little bit of both explanations, really.

I don't think it's at all possible that these features were added to the game without the approval of the writers. After all, Altair's gameplay sequences were developed from a story point first and foremost.

They probably had a reason for allowing Altair to have those moves, and as far as I can tell, the only story explanations are that Atlair did know them but the animus 1.28 didn't allow Desmond to use them, or that Desmond has built up enough sync with Altair and Ezio that he can use moves during their memories that they didn't actually have at that time.

The "Desmond building up more sync with his ancestors" theory is interesting. I guess that will forever be left to the gamers' imagination, as I doubt it will be one of the Revelations of the game. We'll just have to wait and see.

Yeppers!

In any case, I'm glad that they didn't decide to take away all the cool gameplay features that AC has gotten over time just so Altair's memories would be the same as AC1. After all, if you don't want to fast climb or use the new Assassination techniques, you don't have to. : )

I just think Ubi purposefully changed his gameplay so Ezio-only players wouldn't whine about the "retarded Assassin" moving slow. After a while, no one would honestly care as they played. We might talk about it now about how it doesn't make sense to the canon, but when we play, we'll be playing it as we would Ezio without noticing a difference our first time.

But I do agree that the AC2 Altair sequence kind of proves that he didn't move that fast. Although, you're able to assassinate from ledges, air assassinate Templars, etc in that sequence. I think that was an accident on Ubi's part, only focusing on Altair's climbing abilities. If the Bleeding Effect (the "natural" Animus) can show that Altair can only climb at a slow speed even after Bloodlines along with the powerful Abstergo Animus, I think Ubi just changed their gameplay canon to please fast-paced players. That's just my opinion.

It's possible. But it's easy to rationalize, which is all I care about.

It's exactly what I meant when I said that it probably doesn't have a storywise explanation. It's just like that swimming business in AC, Ubisoft most likely made the player desynchronize in water to make Sibrand's assassination challenging, yet because a majority of players was whining about how a Master Assassin couldn't even swim, they felt obliged to mention that it was an Animus glitch later.

Actually, in that case is was just a question of them not being able to get swimming ready in time for release. I don't remember what interview I read it in, but they said that they had meant to get swimming in, but it just wasn't working, and since they were a new IP and on a deadline, it's not like they could delay releasing the game to fix it. They didn't really intend for water to be a difficult challenge to get by, but they just used it to their advantage and created a challenge from it. I admire the resourcefulness of young franchises. : )

But yeah, ledge grabs were obviously just not thought of until AC Bloodlines, I'm not saying that THAT wasn't a retcon. But at least they opened some doors for themselves by moving to a different animus and saying that Altair was the one who invented the moves in the Codex. And I believe the wording of the Codex actually favors Altair having know those moves before, and simply teaching them for the first time. As I've said above.

But the fast climb thing is most likely a retcon that they said "It's really not that big a deal" about. Altair is the same build as Ezio, he should be able to climb just as fast as him.

I can bet that 98% of people would read the Codex as saying Altair didn't think of those techniques until after AC1 and/or Bloodlines. I think most of us can agree that it was just a gameplay element Ubi put into ACR to please newer AC fans. It actually makes sense to say that he thought of them after his own games, because the AC2 sequence is after both Altair games, allowing the player to assassinate using those forms of assassination. Not climbing quickly, though, which is what he can do before his AC1 adventures in ACR. Though, perhaps he did so because he was young, nimble, rushing himself to save his master. So it can be forgiven. Though I think Gabe is actually on the side of keeping his skills close to AC1, since he moved Altair slowly up the fortress as much as possible except for the last few strides at the top of the Masyaf wall.

I think I'll stick with Altair's AC1 climbing skills for his sequences just to see how it feels. They better not make a timed mission where you absolutely have to hold the to climb a building with...fire rising quickly...or something...?

Plus, I've always seen Altair not swimming as being realistic. Even by the 1800s, many people didn't know how to swim. You had to always be around water or have been taught at an early age to have that luxury. If they went for historical accuracy, why not just say that he was one of those people who didn't know the proper techniques of how to swim? It's just easier to explain than "The fictional machine we made up had a glitch...so...ya can't swim...ya happy?" Imagine every Ubisoft worker having a Boston accent, answering that question.

I could indeed imagine that, if I didn't know that they'd tried to implement the feature.

As to the ACR thing, I do believe that that was the intent behind it, but I do also believe that the codex part where he mentioned the moves was delibrately kept open in case they revisited Altair's history.

But whatever the case, it's a full on retcon. They can say that he had to fast climb, because in the AC universe there is now a reason why he couldn't fast-climb in AC1, so now the interpretation if Altair in the game overrides all canon. Assassin's Creed is good at avoiding bigger versions of this problem, and they don't have many of the small ones.

I know I most certainly don't know all the facts of the reasons, but I think I have a plausible grasp of what Ubisoft was thinking, and I don't think that allowing Altair to use the improvements made to Assassin's Creed's core gameplay is in any way a negative effect. And as long as they've bothered to make a plausible rationalization, I'm fine with it story-wise. In a novel, this would be utter crap, but in a game, sometimes things really just have to change for the gameplay of one segment to match up to the gameplay of another.

Just so we're on the same page, do you find fast-climbing to be an unwelcome addition, or do you just hope you're not forced to use it because you would like to pretend that AC1 still dictates that particular aspect of the canon?

Either answer is fine, I won't argue your opinion on either. : )

maybe altair thought of those techniques right at that mission he wanted too be quick but was forbidden by al mualim to use them hence not using them in ac1 but think the game isn´t finished maybe they will fix it that altair can only do them after ac1

Ah, I didn't know that they planned to allow swimming in the first place. It could also have been due to the fact that Altaïr didn't even touch the water when he did this mission, so Desmond doing it would be considered "too far" from Altaïr's actions to keep a good synch with him. Then again, he does get desynchronized in the Kingdom's lakes, which aren't part of any main missions. Either way, it was a good challenge even if it wasn't initially intended.
For Altaïr's missions in ACR, it would have been nice to be "restrained" by AC controls, like the "slow climb" in the bleeding effect in ACII. On the other hand, as Ubisoft loves to listen to the majority of their fans instead of the purists, it is better that they incorporated the fast climb, because as you said Calvar, we can choose not to use it.

I think that it would have been fine to leave even Ezio with the slower climbing ability, because it's more realistic. Unless it was designed like a ladder, you can't sprint up a vertical surface like that. I sometimes switch to the slow-climb in Ezio's games (AC2/ACB) just to see how it would feel. If you do it for a few missions in a row, it's more engaging. You can appreciate how Ubisoft makes sure Ezio is holding onto something at all times. Sprinting up a wall just makes the mission go by faster.

Also, the slow climb is actually fast enough. I allow the leap ability and a few quick strides if I have to be at the top a second faster, but that's mostly it.

I'm not totally against it, though. Since Ezio is a different Assassin and seems to have climbed buildings with his brother since they were young.