The Hidden Blade Assassin's Creed in Depth

My main question, in Ac:B. Multiplayer is based around Abstergo training people to take on the Assassins. What will Ac3's multiplayer be based around.

And my requests for Ac3, take out templar vision. The object of the game is stealth, Templar Vision just destroys that.
As for the maps, take out Monteriggioni, Mont St-Michel, and Pienza. They are all (in my opinion) roof-dominate maps. If you're on higher ground, you have the advantage. I hate those maps

The Multiplayer is good in AC:B but I have a feeling (and also hope) that it'll be a very different experience in ACIII. They'll probably try to tie it in with the story like they did with AC:B so that alone should give a different feel to it.

Even if the actual game modes and mechanics stay the same, the new maps (probably modern/based on wherever ACIII will be set) and different characters (more in-game templars, perhaps Assassins this time?) will make the Multiplayer very different.

This is what I hope will happen anyway. Unlike a game like CoD, where the Multiplayer is tried and tested and therefore recycled every year (it's what people want!), AC:B's Multiplayer experience was something new so they cleverly linked it to the story (without being too obvious and annoying) to make it more interesting and justify its presence in the game.

If they do the same with ACIII, they'll have to introduce completely new maps, characters, abilites and even game modes to keep the Multiplayer relevant to the story but I'm quite looking forward to that. AC:B's Multiplayer is great but i can't wait to see something new

I agree on the rooftop-dominant maps as well, I don't enjoy them much either. (though in Mont St. Michel I occasionally have a large amount of fun just standing blended in front of the church hidden (sometimes with poison) killing all my targets as they run by. I rarely ever have to leave that spot in the map, because everyone always passes through it.). I think rooftops should still be a part of the game, aerial kills are just too important to the whole concept to be left out too much. Maybe add more ways than throwing knives to get people off a rooftop?

Agree with Patrick too, though I really liked how they did it this time around. I would like them to definitely fine-tune it all, but I loved the basic concept and think it should stay mostly the same. I would hate to lose morph/disguise/throwing knives or any ability because they didn't fit into the very different style of play.

The atmosphere will of course be very different, and I really enjoy culture shocks like that (just like playing ACII for the first time after ACI). I look forward to seeing new maps, whether it be present, feudal Japan, the french revolution (though that wouldn't be very different from rome for instance) or any other part of history.

They might be able to continue the story as it is now. Abstergo could hear that Desmond is now searching in a different time-period and send their templar trainees to train there and hunt him down (more objective-based as well as assassination based multiplayer modes might be added this way).
Or, if it is set in the present, it could all stop being a simulation (abilities like morph, disguise and decoy would seem a little out of place, but personally I wouldn't care about that). I don't know how that would work out though, since we can hardly have the templars fighting each other if it's not a simulation, and fighting the assassins there would be some sort of faction divide which would stop modes like wanted from being possible.

Maps like Rome and Castel Gondolofo are my favorite. The roofs aren't dominate, but a smart player can take the advantage from high grounds. Sometimes using the roofs might not be the smartest option, for example when using Templar Vision. In Rome, there are blind spots behind walls or in bushes that you can use to freely use Templar Vision. Sometimes the roofs are to far away from your target group, or are in plain sight.

Something I want to see introduced in Ac3...Co-op mode!! Play with your friends as a team doing Assassination Contracts maybe? Or a rescue mission? The possibilities are endless! I'm not saying you run around as Altair and your friend run around as Ezio just kicking ass all day (But wouldn't that be cool?) But a co-op mode would be great. Double eagle-strike anybody?

What you said about the rooftops is spot on imo, Arrrogance, and the Co-op sounds awesome! It would indeed be alot of fun to do that. I've always found it sad that there isn't a split-screen mode for the multi-player as well. In the case of wanted or 1v1 manhunt I can understand (though people can choose not to screen-peek), but alliance would work great in split-screen. Me and my brother both play on the same console, and it would be awesome to play alliance together.

Double eagle strike ftw . You could perhaps even have co-op assassinations on the ground. When pressing the assassinate button at the same time, one assassin locks the target's arms, the other has full freedom to finish him off. Could also make for some awesome 2-person killstreak combinations (thinking Rush Hour Jackie Chan and Chris Tucker fight together style here, but more awesome .).
Imagine walking like Ezio in the trailer where the guards get shot down around him, but it's your partner doing it instead of automated assassin recruits, that would be sick.

As i said the possibilities are endless! Perhaps you call attention to yourself while your partner can silently get the kill and walk away anonymous.

Remember that trailer for Ac:B? Guards are being taken down as Ezio looks awesome. That could easily be implemented into co-op. You silently make your way through the crowd to your target, while your ally remains on the roofs taking out guards and using his trusty crossbow (or bow and arrow?) to assist you down below. And when you make it to your target, should you be out-numbered, your ally can jump down to join the fray. Think about it, 2 Assassins vs your target and about 20 guards? That's not fair, call in about 20 more guards (:

We're definitely on the same line of thought here, that's exactly the part I meant in those last two sentences of my last post . Now I'm going to be really dissappointed if ACIII doesn't end up having co-op .

What would also be interesting for the multiplayer would be some way to limit the amount of running that players do. Of course, running is necessary on occasion, but I was thinking maybe something along the line of bonus points if you run less than 1 minute in an entire match or something. That could earn you 500 bonus points, for instance. Might give people some incentive to walk more and be more stealthy, since 500 points can really make a difference between winning and losing.

well the current multiplayer has somewhat tackled that. The discreet and hidden bonuses.

This is an idea ive had, nobody may agree but I think it would work with a few tweaks. Remember in Ac1 the Sync bar? If you did something wrong you lost some sync, such as killing a civilian (prior to beating the game) and taking fall damage.

Perhaps bring back the Sync bar for Ac3 multiplayer? start each round and life with 100% sync. If you kill a civilian you loose 25% sync. If you jump off a high area you lose 25, 50, or 75, or 100% sync (losing 100 means you die of course). Im honestly tired of people jumping off a point like 50 feet off the ground and killing me. Back on track..if you're just sprinting around the map like an idiot, you lose sync. Like maybe if you sprint for more than 10 seconds (outside of a chase) you begin to lose some sync. Like lose 10% sync after 10 seconds, and 1% sync for every second you sprint after that. And if you stop running, you have to wait maybe 30 seconds before you can start ur 10-second sprint without losing desync. Maybe you can regain your sync by blending?

This method can prevent the rapid kill of civilians to get a loss-streak bonus (Which i think is wise but cheap), and prevent people from running around the map. Its just a rough idea but with some tweaking it could be perfected

I like the concept, but there are some problems. For one, being able to kill yourself by jumping off a high spot or in different ways could be exploited to annoy your pursuer. If people could die by running, they could die at the exact moment that you've FINALLY caught up to them. That would be horrible .

I like your idea of having some sort of punishment like that for running more than 10 seconds outside a chase. Perhaps some sort of stamina system that slows you at some point?

Also, it's not possible to get a 5 loss streak by killing civilians (I've tried). I looked up some details and the only way to get it is to be stunned, killed or if your target got points by you killing a civilian (lure/escape).

Hmm i swear i've seen a video where someone rapidly kills civilians to get a loss streak. Must be seeing things again. Then perhaps no fall damage, maybe when you hit the ground from a high height, your sprint is halved for a few seconds

When I first saw the multiplayer "walkthrough" video (where the sexy voice lady was playing as the Courtesan) I noticed that the Doctor suddenly knew where his target (Courtesan) was located after she performed a high profile assassination (flipping over and slicing the dude's throat). I assumed that this would be the way to keep players from doing anything high-profile, as their pursuer(s) would be shown exactly (as in, pin-pointed their location for maybe 10 seconds) where their targets are located. To be honest, I would have preferred this in a more advanced Advanced Wanted mode. This would be for hardcore stealthy players, but I bet Ubisoft originally planned on doing that when they began working on multiplayer mechanics.

I think Jack showed how to lose ur contract quickly by starting a chase and then killing a civilian in one of his vids.

I agree that there needs to be fall damage, you can do some ridiculous leaps in places like Mont ST. Michel, which I don't like as a map.

I think having Stamina is a better idea than the de-synch thing for running, it means starting a chase is risky cause you have to catch them quickly before you run out of energy (I think in Team modes, the defenders should have more stamina?).

We need more maps!!!! I get bored of playing the same ones over and over especially as I dislike Monterrigioni and Sienna alot. I prefer the larger maps which balance the roofs with the ground (e.g Rome)

I myself find one of the most annoying things about roofs to be that, if you do go up there to get your target, they always know you´re coming for them. I´ve exploited this myself often enough, making aerial after aerial and running with mute and smoke because I always see my pursuers coming from miles away because I was constantly on the rooftops. This worked especially well in Forli.

I´d like to see more things like the focus bonus. I just love it when I casually get behind my target, and just walk after them for 3 seconds before stabbing them. The extra 150 points are very nice, and it just feels really awesome. I can´t really think of anything off the top of my head now, but things in that line of thought. Perhaps a (small) bonus if you kill your target while in the same blend group as them? Or a bonus for assassinating from a moving group? (I've noticed this is more difficult and rare, since they don't always go the right way. Stationary groups I find easier, as I just have to wait for my target to walk by). Little things like that could motivate people to really try and get those awesome entirely unexpected kills. That's the whole point of the game, of course, that the kills are a surprise. I just love it when I hear someone rage after I've just focus-hidden-killed them while standing in the same group. I also feel drop-kills should be worth just a little more, 200 points or so. They really don't happen often.

Another savior/poacher -like bonus could be killing your target while your pursuer is within 10 meters, "Lucky" or something like that.

A simple way to combat roofers in multiplayer is make it like single player with archers on every rooftop. If they spot you then they would either open fire on you or initiate a chase with your target. Since having a player die from something other than assassinations can be problematic then i'd say the latter would be best.

If the rooftop archers spot you then they shout something "ASSASSIN!" and your target is instantly tipped off to your presence even if your stealth meter still shows you as incognito. This would give people a good reason to stay off rooftops as it would make it a lot easier to loose your target. Also, you can't kill the archer like you can in single player.

Aside from removing templar vision(already on the list) that's the only thing i'd change personally.

Archer's on the rooftop in Multiplayer...? How would that work. It would simply help out your pursuer by alerting them of your presence, and helping to chase them down. I mean, if they just stood there and shouted "Assassin!"...or in this case "Templar!" that would be dumb. Besides, if an archer alerts ur pursuer if ur presence, the archer will just alert the pursuer's pursuer, and the pursuer's pursuer's pursuer, and so on. Alot of flaws with that suggestion

EDIT: As far as Personas go...and this may not work if Ac3's multiplayer system is based around Templars..and this may be a bit stupid..but I'm dying to play as him...Giovanni Auditore!

I don't really see how archers on rooftops is a BAD idea. I think it's a good idea. If someone's on a roof trying to, say, get to their targets faster, an archer would be yelling something, pointing to the player who is "out of bounds" and show the rooftop player's target THIS IS THE GUY WHO'S GONNA KILL YOU!!!

It shouldn't show the rooftop player's pursuer where they were, because their job is to find and kill their target, not wait for someone to pick him out.

Perhaps..but if Archers on the rooftops shouted out "Templar!" what do they do then, stand there? Or at least make a new game-mode called "Stealth" or something. And only have archers in that game-mode. Because some people actually enjoy running around on the roof with hidden gun and templar vision. If thats taken away. they'll straight up quit the game, we don't want that entirely. If a game is always played as its meant to be, there will be no fun and creativity. I doubt Ubisoft intended for double stun and stun-locks, but its fun

I don't see it as less creative, I see it as equalizing it for all players. In every multiplayer game, there are always those that want to rush in and KILL KILL KILL. Whether it be Halo, Gears of War, or CoD. The reason those games aren't whined about as much is because it's expected. Assassin's Creed is supposed to be a stealthy game based on your killing style. They wanted something different because of that. If rushers whine about the game being too slow because they can't run on the roofs, then they're not the target audience. Look at Amnesia. That game obviously isn't for everybody, but it did wonders for the company that made it because it was original and they cared about their fans. That's how games should be, I think. Make it for the people that made you a success, not EVERY gamer who can afford to buy it.

I say bring on the difficulty. Maybe more players can utilize their hidden bonuses and poison kills to get to 1st instead of building up aerial kills and 2-meter chase kills.

I still vote NOT to make the entire game stealth dependant, but make new game-modes. There are times im in a rage mood and i go blazin on the roofs with my gun

They could add the archers to Advanced Wanted since that mode is intended for hardcore players. The lack of the 'up' or 'down' arrow only really encourages people to climb up on rooftops so they can find their target.

The archers look interesting to me, but it seems they'd be more of a nuissance to pursuers who play the game as it should be played (who are forced to go on the rooftops, because their targets went there). Also, they would pretty much remove roofs from the game entirely (please correct me if you didn't mean it this way). I don't enjoy everyone running around the rooftops, but they are an iconic and important part of the game imo. The two-layer part of the maps is interesting. I would look more at something that would discourage people from walking the rooftops for extended periods.
I remember one match where I was forced to smoke my pursuer and stun him and my target ran away, because he saw I was his pursuer. I couldn't enter a chase, of course, I hate doing that . So, I tried to see where he was heading, went down a side road to break line of sight. Went up on the roof, ran along it in his direction, and he was coming straight towards me and I made an aerial focus kill, because he wasn't looking for me anymore. I like rooftops when they're used like that. Rooftops are also very important in drop-kills, which are some of the coolest kills in the game imo.

The danger in rooftops should be in exposing yourself to your pursuer. Right now, they are actually SAFER than the ground. Since you can pretty much always see your pursuer coming and then mute/smoke -> stun them. Plus, you are safe from people on the rooftops who can aerial you without you seeing them or being able to mute/smoke them.
The problem with rooftops exposing you to your pursuer is that:
- They can't see the entire rooftops from below, forcing them to climb up as well to see you and know where you are
- Once you've been exposed, there's nothing your pursuer can do except walk up to you in the open and hope
you're dumb enough not to stop him

I usually wait for my target to come down at some point in order to assassinate him, but that can sometimes take pretty long. Perhaps some sort of ability could work, which renders you invisible for a couple of seconds when on a roof (but only for your target?). This way you could get close to them on the ground, get into a hanging position at the rooftops edge, use that ability and then walk up to your target and assassinate him. This way, going on the rooftops opens you up to assassination by enemies you can't even see.

I would like to see AC3's multiplayer system redesigned from the ground up. They can retain a lot of the ideas from AC:B, but taking another stab at it from ground level would make it a lot more streamlined and iron out all the kinks they had to work around once they learned what did and didn't work after it was too late to change them.

The big thing is the stun/assassinate priority. Being a stealth assassin is supposed to be difficult, taking years to learn and many more years to perfect. Not many people are skilled enough to pull it off. So why is it that assassinating always has top priority, yet stunning (essentially discovering the assassin) has virtually zero priority? It should be the exact opposite. To get a kill, you should need to do everything right, not just run in while tapping . Stunning should always take priority over everything else and should provide no points when performed. Assassinating should be tough, and you should have to catch your opponent off guard to do it. Otherwise you're a total failure at being a stealth assassin. Why should you get rewarded for that?

So how would that work with people standing around tapping so that they can stun all people approaching? Simple – make stun like assassinate in that you can stun anybody, even NPC's. If you slap one, they get up after a moment and go about their business, but it revealed you to your pursuer(s), both in animation and by placing a marker over them just as with a runner. There would be a couple seconds of cooldown before the defender could stun again, giving a window to be attacked. These ideas would ensure that it is never in a defender's best interest to start slapping down random NPC's and making a scene.

Another way to do it is making stun automatic – if you're locked onto the pursuer before they attempt to assassinate you. If you're locked on to somebody, it means that you're suspicious of them. Because you're watching them closely, your character should be able to thwart any incoming attack and stun/humiliate them for allowing themselves to be discovered. You should need to be locked onto the pursuer for at least a couple of seconds before you automatically thwart their attempt, much like the existing Focus system for assassinating; that way you can't just keep cycle targeting everybody that walks by to easily avoid being killed. Targeting ("watching") a pursuer should also thwart air assassinations the same way guards do in single player when they're in combat mode.

These ideas would obviously require a better targeting/lock system than exists in AC:B so that the defenders can still get the stun priority if they discover their pursuer before being assassinated. Everyone agrees that the targeting system in AC:B blows, so let's see that totally revamped. Some games out there do a spectacular job, so I don't know why it was so difficult for them to make something decent for AC:B. If there is a better targeting system, targeting or positioning for stuns would be easy and could be done in a reactionary manner without worrying about picking the wrong character by mistake (a problem the offenders often experience as it is).

There's so much more that could be done, but those are the key changes I'd make. The rest I can live with as it is in AC:B, other than the fact that we need a much more sophisticated and customizable matchmaking/finding system than AC:B has.

If Abstergo has had all these files on their multiplayer skins and implementing them each to any Templar agent regardless if they're the proper descendants of said characters, I think they should up the level cap to a far greater number to win Assassin skins (i.e. Altair, Giovanni Auditore, Al Mualim, Robert de Sable, etc.). Also, use a similar method to win new maps (Majd Addin's execution stage, Abul's fortress).

If you still think people should be able to run around on rooftops then you could have the archers only on certain roofs(like above the marketplace in the center of Florence).

Storywise, why think archers should be in multiplayer is because it would be more realistic for what the Templars are trying to do(train their own assassins). While they could probebly pay off local law inforcement to ignore them it would really teach them to be stealthy like REAL assassins. If you want then you can do what Arrogance said and include it as part of a new game mode for the HARDCORE AC players.

Well since this is for AC3 and not some ACB patch, im going to propose a whole new way to play wanted.

Basically the game is full of civillians, like in the story mode. You pick some random civillian skin, possibly one you could customise as you progress through the game. There are no copies of your persona, you just blend in with the crowd. Here is how the compass will work, it only lights up towards your target if they do a kill, or do any high profile action. So basically players are blind at the start, simply searching the crowds for their target and using their wits. But as players get bored and start running and such, the games pace will speed up. Its more of a hardcore mode of wanted

^ This.

That's how I originally envisioned Wanted mode to be. They had to change it because not as many gamers would be attracted to that sort of gameplay.

That actually sounds cool, Jack. To most gamers it would seem boring (losing Ubisoft a lot of custom) but I reckon true fans would love it.

At first it would be really nerve-racking, trying to act naturally in the crowd, and I think it would be a case of who panics first and decides to run. After that, everyone would be forced to break cover eventually. Truly awesome!

Yeah, it would keep people on their toes and paranoid the entire game. Once someone makes a kill and lets their pursuer know where they are for a few seconds and a chase begins, it's chaos.

The average kills for a game would probably become 2-4, but I think you should get a bonus for not dying because you're stealthy and following the rules of the game (how it's supposed to be played).

I'd love for them to make AC1 maps for AC3 multiplayer. That's what I think of when we discuss these hardcore modes. Renaissance Italy is too flamboyant. I want something more serious like this game mode.

100% agreed about AC1 maps. Italy is way too sunny We need some dark, mysterious and downright creepy maps to keep us on edge.

The characters are also a bit too flamboyant. Although the Doctor looks quite creepy and most of the others are quite cool, their attire is far too decorated with frills all over them. Even the Priest and Executioner who have quite dirty, bloody clothing look too over the top.

Generic character models would be way better and, as Jack originally suggested, no/very few copies. This would mean that loads of different models would be needed for the NPCs but if they all look quite generic, it wouldn't matter.

For men you could have say:

5 hair colours
3 hair lengths
4 facial hair lengths/styles
4 skin colours
3 body types/sizes
7 tunic colours
7 shirts (same colours as tunics)
7 trousers (same colours as tunics)

For women it would, of course, be similar but possibly with more variation in hairstyles (although on facial hair I hope!) and clothing.

This would give plenty of subtle variety within the crowd as there would be a huge number of possible combinations. It would be nice to have the odd group of more specific characters too (although whether they'd be playable I can't decide) such as monks (in brown and white), courtesans (dependng on time period), beggars, drunks and vigilantes...?

When Advanced Wanted came out I thought it would be something similar to my idea, but all they did was slightly change the compass and the detection gauge, a pathetic change for a whole new game mode.

You could also use luring tactics, run for a short period to lure your pursuer over and then hide somewhere.

Me LIKEY. SO MUCH! I would NEVER take any breaks from a game like that! I hope they do that and also have an ADVANCED mode, where you get NO indication ever of your target's location, and you just have to manually search for people running and stuff.

That wanted mode sounds awesome, I would definitely play that a whole lot .

I would also like to propose that the whispers be removed, in all game modes. I have no idea what most people's reaction to this suggestion will be, but I'll have to find out. I just feel that the whispers take away from the realness of the game. They give a too large advantage to targets to find their pursuers in my opinion. I have never used them myself and I have turned the music off. I believe finding your pursuer should be based on the actual players observational skills (someone bee-lining towards you, someone fast-walking behind you, not quite walking like an npc, etc.). I don't see how the whispers really fit in, what are they? If Abstergo is training assassins, they shouldn't be giving them advantages like that, which will not exist normally.

I've walked up to people in a moving group, only to have them turn around and run around me. I used to think it was bad luck, but it is quite likely that they heard whispers and decided to get the hell out of there. I really don't see that as fair or good gameplay.

I use the whispers to my advantage in order to get easy stun points (find a copy of your character around a corner and you're set!). I think it keeps players from rage-quitting more often, because it gives them a chance, although I wouldn't mind if they took it out for this epic Wanted mode we thought up.

This was something I actually suggested on their official website when the game came out in the beta, but I was shot down by loads of players who didnt quite grasp it so I never mentioned it again.

Its actually a game mode I have wante dto play since I heard GTA IV had multiplayer. I imagined a free roam type where you just explore the city like single player and other players are also in the game using ped skins. They could try drive like an AI and if they see some player causing havok they could kill them, snipe them etc.

Instead they gave you a radar and blips on their head, so it didnt work the way I wanted it to

I hope there's a revolution of some sort with multiplayer games. They're all the same basic idea with their own twists to make it different. I'm sure if the AC1 team (the ones with the realistic and original vision) made multiplayer, it would have been as close to Jack's idea as possible.

That's pretty much why I think it should be removed. Using whispers to get a stun just feels like cheating to me, even though it is a part of the game. If you didn't actually see your opponent coming, you're dead, that's how it should work imo. In a match in Venice a while back I was on the giant rooftop and my pursuer was hiding behind one of the smaller roofs on there. I didn't see him and he stepped out at the last moment and killed me. I had the music turned off (1. because it started to annoy me and 2. because I play without whispers out of principal), so I had no idea he was there. I would have felt like I was cheating if I just quickly got the hell off the roof because I knew my pursuer was nearby. I can't stand it either when I'm moving up to someone in a group, and they're coming straight towards me, just to see them turn around and quickly take another route.

Personally, I would like to see them removed in ACIII. I don't think the advantage of using them myself outweighs the annoyance of missing an otherwise perfectly executed kill. Simply because there is no way to actively counter the whispers, all you can hope for is that your opponent is dumb enough not to notice or be too preoccupied (or as stubborn as me, and playing without them ).

Normally I would agree. If ACB's multiplayer worked the way it should, that is.

The problem is that the priority is always on the assassin and not the target, so the target needs some gimme so that they're not at a total disadvantage.

In a perfect world, being the assassin would be the more difficult job and stunning would have priority over killing. It should be necessary to be completely stealthy, carefully planning your attack and really earning that kill by totally surprising your opponent even if they saw you coming ("hiding in plain sight"). But the game doesn't work that way.

So until they fix the core mechanics of the multiplayer gameplay itself, my opinion is that whispers should stay. It's only a band-aid solution to a much bigger problem, but it's better than nothing.

What about a MMO setting for the multiplayer, where you can play in The Holy Land, parts of Italy and new locations.

I think it would be possible for them to make an MMO of AC. Then we could actually have a THB clan and show off our epic team of Assassins. Instead of "quests", it would just be "contracts/assassinations". I'd like it to be on consoles as well as PC. I've never had the liberty of playing an MMO because it was either PS3 or PC only, or it had a fee I couldn't afford.