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AC1 Speedrun

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Holy crap, I discovered a great route for the William assassination. Saves over 5 seconds, I think.
Also tested out rooftops versus streets with the previous route, and unlike Fed said, it doesn't matter a whole lot. Running through the streets is a lot harder because you have to go around everyone.

Also, compared to Dark Souls this game's movement feels sluggish.

Video forthcoming.

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I'm glad to see you're working (again?) on this. About the routes: I may be wrong; only use the fastest you can find each time ^^

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Fed981 wrote:
I'm glad to see you're working (again?) on this.

Haha, yeah. Didn't feel like playing Dark Souls or Dishonored, so I popped in AC1.

Fed981 wrote:
About the routes: I may be wrong; only use the fastest you can find each time ^^

That's kind of the point of a speedrun. Tongue If there is one thing I've learnt at SDA, it's that if you haven't got it on video and it isn't extremely obvious, you should test it out.

Here's the route. While I was in the neighbourhood, I also checked Garnier's routes to see if I can do any better. Turns out the pickpocket in the souk is actually a very viable option if you look at the time required. So it comes down to which cutscene is shorter, but I haven't checked that yet.

Video ID Garnier and William Routing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exL8nFWRycw

Looking back at the video, I now notice a few mistakes I made. I think for Garnier the Souk route 1 is best if I'm doing segmented. For SS, I'd go with Souk 2 or the original route optimized.
For running to William, the best way is my new route, I think. Since I made a lot of mistakes in the original route, I lost a lot of time (I have a clip of me doing that route in 1:22, apparently). I also made mistakes in the new route, but not so much, even though I don't know that route as well. So it's more consistent.

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According to me, if you don't meet anyone, and if you use smooth and short trajectories (especially around the corners), the "streets only" route is the best one. For sure.

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Well, that's the problem with the streets route. "If you don't meet anyone", well, in those small streets at the beginning you are going to encounter a ton of people because they're small and the area is fairly crowded. That's why I prefer a hybrid route.

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Proposed routes for Sibrand. (Proposed meaning "I think they're the fastest" Tongue)
http://i.imgur.com/rOJRuYR.png

I doubt using the Informer is faster here because it's a pretty long trek to kill all four (I think) targets. The other informer would be very doable, but that's really out of the way.

Routing for Jubair.
http://i.imgur.com/Qf4GnQH.png

"Middle district" right over the streets for the assassination routes, lol.
Maybe it's possible to swap out the first Eavesdrop for an Informer mission with two targets? (It's the dot just up from the end of the investigations route). Not sure if that's entirely viable. Anyone got any input?

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Okay, so I discovered that quitting and reloading when you've just entered a city (I'm talking coming right from the Kingdom) teleports you to the bureau. This potentially could save a boatload of time, with the long trips for Jerusalem and Damascus in particular. It also opens up the possibility of doing some of the different investigations.
I think it's reasonable to assume that it doesn't work the first time you enter Damascus (since you have to do the Save Citizen tutorial thing), and potentially for Garnier and Talal. I'm going to test that out, though.

Also, for Jubair's route I checked the Informer versus the Beat Up. Turns out the Informer mission is a lot faster, even with a bunch of mistakes. As long as you get the jump and bump right, of course.

I'll have to reexamine a bunch of routes because of the save warp thing. Sad Oh well, the run's going to be faster for it. Laughing out loud

Also, I ran up until entering Damascus today (to check the save warp thing), so this time I kept a timer. Took 52 minutes total. My phone screwed up the lap timing, though, so I don't know how long each part of that takes. It's around 10 minutes for finishing the in-animus tutorial. Sad

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"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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Yes, the save warping can save some minutes, or even more. ^^

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Ran up to Talal yesterday and tested save warping for him and Garnier. Didn't work.
I also practiced the dismount over guard post, and I think I completely understand the mechanics of it now. I could get a 40% success rate or so, and that's with pretty bad control. What happens is that the horse pushes one of the guards away, so there's a 'hole' in the guard post, which you can then move through. The fastest way to do this, is to jump from horseback. So really 'dismount over guard post' is just a faster way to bowl your way through. Problem is that you're only displacing one guard most of the time, so the hole is pretty narrow.

Did some messing around with Talal today. I think it's wise to do the informer (with the flag race), as that doesn't even take a minute, and there's potential for a super-awesome jump and bump, though I haven't gotten that to work yet. If I swap that out for the beat-up, that will most certainly save a ton of time.

Also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yUqrobcv9g

The Informer mission is terrible, yet it still ends up being half a minute faster than the beatup. I think that informer missions are actually some the fastest investigations a lot of the time.
The video looks so crappy because I tried out Adobe After Effects. It took over 12 hours to render this, so you can imagine what better quality would've been like.

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Here's a better setup for the Jubair blitz:

http://youtu.be/b8Nht0ZXkEE

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That is fantastic, Aurel. Thanks!

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Luckily I managed to get this on the first try while recording (for the AC compilation video). If anything should happen to go wrong when you do the speed run you'll have to improvise. For example, if you either miss catching the ledge or somehow don't fall off the roof you'll have to do the regular blitz way. And if you either don't manage to assassinate him or do assassinate him and teleport to his location, you'll have to adjust your flight path back to the bureau.

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That's awesome.

“Force has no place where there is need of skill." Herodotus

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aurllcooljay wrote:
Luckily I managed to get this on the first try while recording (for the AC compilation video). If anything should happen to go wrong when you do the speed run you'll have to improvise. For example, if you either miss catching the ledge or somehow don't fall off the roof you'll have to do the regular blitz way. And if you either don't manage to assassinate him or do assassinate him and teleport to his location, you'll have to adjust your flight path back to the bureau.

The convenience of segmented running means I can just reset if that happens.

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"Betraying the Assassins is never good for one's health."
"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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By the way, will you include save warping or not?

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Of course I will include save warping, it's faster! And since I'm using pretty crazy exploits anyway, why not?

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"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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And do you have an idea of an end date? ^^

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The tentative plan is to do most of it over this year's summer holiday since I don't have much time otherwise. If I finish it then, it's early september. If I do not, then it's going to be pushed back by a lot since next year is going to be really busy with me finishing my bachelor's and all other study-type-of-things.

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"Betraying the Assassins is never good for one's health."
"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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New route for Abu'l investigations:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO5k0nOwImA

Actually, I just rewatched my old Abu'l Route video, and the investigations take about the same amount of time. I still think save warping saves a lot of time, but it's mostly going to be from not having to ride all the way up to the city.

Also, tried Aurel's set up, and man, that's easy. Awesome because that saves like 20 seconds.

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This guy is trying some things: http://www.twitch.tv/wymorn/c/2156618

Maybe interesting, maybe not.

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Here are the fastest routes I could find from the bureau to the Abul Nuquod and Sibrand assassinations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok4H7KYH0po

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Thanks Aurel. Your route vid for Abu'l is about 7 seconds faster than mine, so I'm not sure it's entirely worth it. I thought I had a Sibrand vid somewhere, but apparently not. Not sure if my route is faster or not, since it requires a bit of freerunning.

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Okay, so I was playing around yesterday, getting used again to the systems of AC1 after playing AC3 for 40 hours, and I discovered something absolutely marvellous: jump and bump works on pickpocketing cutscenes. You have to jump at the guy who's the first to talk and make sure you hit him only after he's talked, but then the talking just ends and you can pickpocket him. Furthermore, this is possible virtually everywhere. I mean, I managed to get it on the Talal pickpocket near the Golden Dome.

If we now rank the investigations to speed:
1. Pickpocket (with Jump and Bump)
2. Informer
3. Eavesdrop
4. Beatup

Contrary to what Stabguy lists in his Guide to Speed Play. This is making me reconsider the routes for almost all the targets.

For Tamir, I think taking the second pickpocket near the souk will save a bunch of time. Travel distance from the first pickpocket is about the same as to the eavesdrop.
For Garnier, I'm torn. One pickpocket is in the souk, which will take a bunch of time to get out of, but it's also a very easy pickpocket. So I'd do that last, but then I'd have to run all the way over to the previous pickpocket or the informer mission. Looking at the maps, I think that it's faster to first do the 'outside pickpocket' and then into the souk, but maybe it saves time if I go into the souk first.
For Talal, easy: informer first, pickpocket second. I don't think I can make it to the second pickpocket that fast, and I'd have to give up the greatest jump and bump in the hisotry of the world. You haven't seen it, but it's awesome.
For Abu'l, this is another toughy. I have to eavesdrops in there, but the single pickpocket there is is very out of the way, and I'm not so sure I can get jump and bump to work there, so I think I'll just stick with the original route.
For Majd, I'm already doing two pickpockets, so it's a matter of figuring out how to get jump and bump to work. The informer mission here is a tad long, so I think I'll just stick with the original route.
For William, from bureau to informer and then the two pickpockets.
For Jubair, this is another annoying one. There's a pickpocket very close to the bureau, but jump and bump may aggravate the informed patrol around there. Not sure what I want to do that.
For Sibrand, I think I want to do two pickpockets and the easy informer.
For Maria, pickpocket, informer and I kind of want to do the hard pickpocket.

I also worked on getting into Acre: jumping over the guard post regular-style doesn't work because you have to go up four steps before entering the city, so jumping of the horse means you jump into the face of one of the guards. I managed to do a bowl a couple of times, though, and one time I actually got the jump while the guard was down on the ground, so that's definitely viable.

Also, I think I have the secret to pulling of the Abu'l blitz: walk on the beam rather than running. Abu'l didn't even notice I was there until I was right next to him.

Oh, and I switched to "hold LT to lock on". This is easier during shock and awe fights and makes lock on fails less annoying to deal with.

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"Betraying the Assassins is never good for one's health."
"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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161803398874989 wrote:
jump and bump works on pickpocketing cutscenes.

Wow. That is a major discovery! I would have thought it would spook the guy to be pickpocketed.

If we now rank the investigations to speed:
1. Pickpocket (with Jump and Bump)
2. Informer
3. Eavesdrop
4. Beatup

Informer is still a lot of work: jump and bump, go kill some guys or collect some flags, return to the informer, jump and bump again. Even if everything goes right it couldn't be much faster than Eavesdrop.

I switched to "hold LT to lock on". This is easier during shock and awe fights.

I once suggested that to Ian for shock and awe because you can get automatically locked on if an enemy lands a blow. He said that it had become second nature for him to notice lock ons and manually unlock.

You won't even feel the blade.

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I remember jump and bump works on beatup scenes.

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stabguy wrote:
Wow. That is a major discovery! I would have thought it would spook the guy to be pickpocketed.

Yeah, it's really cool. It's sometimes hard to do though, and I haven't figured out the parameters exactly yet. For instance, there's the "O-ce-no"-pickpocket, in which you can't do a regular jump and bump because the environment screws it up. I found a way to bump into the first person to talk regardless, but it's already a bit into the scene, and doesn't work then anymore.
I think I'll make a video of it.

Informer is still a lot of work: jump and bump, go kill some guys or collect some flags, return to the informer, jump and bump again. Even if everything goes right it couldn't be much faster than Eavesdrop.

You definitely have a point. I guess it depends on the location of the informer and the eavesdrop as well as the length of the eavesdrop cutscene to see whether it saves time or not.

I once suggested that to Ian for shock and awe because you can get automatically locked on if an enemy lands a blow. He said that it had become second nature for him to notice lock ons and manually unlock.

It also comes in handy when you screw up the lock on on a pickpocket or something.

I remember jump and bump works on beatup scenes.

Yeah, it does, but you also have to sit through the second cutscene and do the work of beating the target up.
However, this does remind me that I should Jump and Bump Masun in the beginning of the game.

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"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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I'm having a really hard time with the pickpocket jump and bumps. I can only get it to work properly on two pickpockets: for Garnier the one in the destroyed souk and for William the one near the tower.
I have developed ways to get in the huddle for Garnier, the pickpocket in the alleyway, for Talal, the pickpocket near the golden dome and for the O-ce-no pickpocket, but with all of those the timing is off or something. With the alleyway pickpocket and the golden dome pickpocket, I bump into the target before he starts speaking so he gets knocked over, but he starts speaking in his new position anyway. With the oc-e-no pickpocket, I bump into the target a bit after he's started speaking, and it doesn't work either.

Frankly, I could use some help with this. I'm going to record the first couple of segments today, just to get the beginning of the game out of the way, but for Tamir I'll need to work on the route first.

EDIT: So, first couple segments done. Also, I figured out how the pickpocket jump and bump works! Laughing out loud You just have to bump both of the guys involved in the cutscene. For one pickpocket before Jubair, there are three people involved in the scene, best case scenario there would probably to skip part of the scene.

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"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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161803398874989 wrote:
You just have to bump both of the guys involved in the cutscene.

I have enough trouble doing jump and bump on one guy. If you can bump two guys while doing a speedrun, more power to you.

You won't even feel the blade.

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stabguy wrote:
161803398874989 wrote:
You just have to bump both of the guys involved in the cutscene.

I have enough trouble doing jump and bump on one guy. If you can bump two guys while doing a speedrun, more power to you.

As long as it's not a single segment run, he should be fine. Wink

“Force has no place where there is need of skill." Herodotus

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I can do it for a couple guys just fine. Things like the Golden Dome pickpocket are a lot harder, but I feel there just has to be a way.

stabguy wrote:
161803398874989 wrote:
You just have to bump both of the guys involved in the cutscene.

I have enough trouble doing jump and bump on one guy. If you can bump two guys while doing a speedrun, more power to you.

Well, so far my track record with jumps has been pretty good. I have around 90% consistency on all jumps labelled "tricky" so far. Anyhow, what you simply want to do is to start your jump from the line through the two guys so you bump into the first one and then the first one bumps into the second one. I think you can also do it when you start perpendicular to the line, but that is very hard.

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Are there any scenes with 3 people that need to be bumped? I don't know if it's possible to bump in an arc to hit them all. Wink Tongue

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Yeah, the pickpocket in the Jubair route is one with 3 people. Sadly, you can airstrafe or anything, so I am pretty sure that one is unbumpable.

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Maybe if Altaïr could commune with the spirit bear and get bear power, then you could bump them all at once. Puzzled

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Speedruns keep surprising me.
Great work you guys are doing.

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Hmm. You could try moving them together, but I think they move back in place, or at least the guy you lock on to does. This reminds me of yet another exploit in AC1: If you start a wall run when a scene is starting you can still kick off the wall even though you've lost high profile actions. You can't be hanging off a ledge though, or you can't jump away. That might be useful.

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The other guy runs back as well, I tested. Tongue I didn't know about the wallrun tip though, thanks.

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"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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Quick update: I'm now right before Tamir. I choked pretty hard on the section where you have to thwart the Templar assault because I didn't want to bump into anyone, but that is very hard with all the civilians running around. So then I went to do something else. I'll probably go back and redo that segment eventually, but right now I should get a move on.
I've now fully routed Tamir, timing everything, and it turns out going for both pickpockets is faster. One I can skip the cutscene of, and from there to the eavesdrop is very RNG because you have to go through the souk and there's a bunch of people there. To the other pickpocket is really easy though, and the scene is a bit shorter, so that's slightly faster, like 2 seconds. The lack of RNG is a bonus.

So right now I go for the small souk pickpocket, then onto the pickpocket I can skip in front of the large souk and then save warp to bureau. Only thing I need now is a good strat for the save citizen. I can get one of them with the hidden blade, then throw another one the ground near the merchant stall, also take that one out with the hidden blade, and then throw the final one into the merchant stall. I think it's pretty optimized, but I'd be up for something more RNG-ish as it's the beginning of the segment anyway.

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"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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Well, fuck. I got the segment. Then I proceeded to play around a bit with the Tamir pickpocket I don't skip the scene of. And promptly discovered a scene skip. It's an odd one because for some reason I can't lock onto the target, but I'm pretty confident I can find a workaround. Now on one hand I am excited to have broken another scene, but one the other hand, the first save citizen is a pain in the ass to do quickly with the strat I have. The route video I uploaded is the slow-ass way, I'm currently uploading the segment I got. The strat is to get one with hidden blade, then throw one close to the merchant stall, and then throw the other into the merchant stall, killing them both. Then you have to skip the dialog, which is also a pain because there is a bubble around the monk that takes away your high profile actions so you must jump from really far.

I'll probably move onto routing Talal soon. I've spent ages on this segment already, though it is pretty annoying with the fighting where you can't counter.

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161803398874989 wrote:
the first save citizen is a pain in the ass to do quickly with the strat I have

Actually, I found the last video you uploaded to be chock-full of difficult, low percentage moves. For instance, jumping over the guard post at the city gate is most challenging in Damascus because of the curved approach. Kudos for making it look easy. The only move you took any time setting up was the double jump and bump pickpocket.

You won't even feel the blade.

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stabguy wrote:
161803398874989 wrote:
the first save citizen is a pain in the ass to do quickly with the strat I have

Actually, I found the last video you uploaded to be chock-full of difficult, low percentage moves. For instance, jumping over the guard post at the city gate is most challenging in Damascus because of the curved approach. Kudos for making it look easy. The only move you took any time setting up was the double jump and bump pickpocket.

Thanks for the compliment!

Actually I find Damascus is the easier one, since you have quite a big stretch to align the horse, and you can do it without going full sprint. Actually, I should make a video on how the dismount over guard post actually works.. Acre is very hard for me because the guards are right on top of a couple steps, so if you jump off the horse, you can directly bump into one, which means open conflict automatically.
I can do the jump and bump pretty quickly, but you need to jump really early and I lost a lot of segments because I screwed it up.
As for the low percentage shots... I'm actually pretty consistent with those because they're not random. Just a matter of practice. I guess each has their talents.

I'm redoing segment 7 now though, because I found this. That is an annoying trick that I'm only kinda consistent with, but it saves about 10 seconds, so I can't not include it because it's a 2.5 minute segment.

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161803398874989 wrote:
The strat is to get one with hidden blade, then throw one close to the merchant stall, and then throw the other into the merchant stall, killing them both. Then you have to skip the dialog, which is also a pain because there is a bubble around the monk that takes away your high profile actions so you must jump from really far.

If it's too frustrating you could climb the nearby structure and attempt to air assassinate the save citizen, locking on in midair.

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aurllcooljay wrote:
161803398874989 wrote:
The strat is to get one with hidden blade, then throw one close to the merchant stall, and then throw the other into the merchant stall, killing them both. Then you have to skip the dialog, which is also a pain because there is a bubble around the monk that takes away your high profile actions so you must jump from really far.

If it's too frustrating you could climb the nearby structure and attempt to air assassinate the save citizen, locking on in midair.

Nah it's just a matter of not being too hasty with it.

_________________

"Betraying the Assassins is never good for one's health."
"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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Have you done any later segments yet? Because I found a way to save a few minutes on yet another assassination. But it may be a while before I publish it because I have two other videos on the way.

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No, not yet. I'm still working on getting a good time for segment 7. I have a new route that needs a bunch of cleanup, but I am currently playing the crap out of the Dark Mod.

what target is it for?

_________________

"Betraying the Assassins is never good for one's health."
"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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Abul Nuquod. The procedure involves some risk, but after practicing it could be done with ease.

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Cool. I'm looking forward to seeing it.

_________________

"Betraying the Assassins is never good for one's health."
"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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If the current computer still won't work this may be my next video. I had a video already edited and ready for upload on there, but I guess we'll wait and see what happens.

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Wow, AC1 is my favorite and I am REALLY looking forward for this Speedrun.

Well, I cannot directly help with the Speedrun(I usually only speed run platformers, but I suck in any other kind) but I can give moral support! XD

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Made a video with strats for Garnier: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RQOUHjf2Eo

Crucial points are these:
- For the entry, line up Altaïr's hand just left of the three bricks
- Depending on your luck, it might be better to escape and then reenter the fortress
- To drop down into the bureau, let go of High profile trigger+Legs button and then press High profile trigger+Empty hand button.

_________________

"Betraying the Assassins is never good for one's health."
"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."

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Updated the first post with routes and shit. Dark Souls 2 has been finished so we can make some progress on this (I hope Tongue).

Video for William investigations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaJ-3aPS4s8

Writing the first post, I realized I don't have videos for a lot of things. I played from the Abu'l up to Jubair this morning, could've recorded a bunch. Oh well. Not that I'm looking forward to anything involving Majd's assassination, that's for sure. Tongue

_________________

"Betraying the Assassins is never good for one's health."
"Well, neither is drinking liquor, but I'm drawn to its dangers all the same."