User login

Let's solve some hieroglyphics!

30 replies [Last post]
Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

"It's not just a setting for us, we take pride in representing things properly in a game form. So there are a lot of references to actual historic stuff. You know, the hieroglyphs, it's not just art on a wall; they actually say stuff. You know that giant mural behind me yesterday when I was doing the conference? There's a meaning there."
Ashraf Ismail, as reported by GameSpot


We've posted on a lot of symbology, numeral analysis, the glyphs at the end of AC1, etc etc etc on this forum. (Someone else can search and post the links to those old posts below. I might when I'm done here). So let's solve some as yet unsolved hieroglyphics...

Before I post the images, some notes on reading hieroglyphics:
1 - Since these are in columns, they are to be read from top to bottom.
2 - Since all the animals and human figures point left, they are to be read from left to right (figures face the beginning of the sentence). This is important in case the 6 glyphs are connected in a bigger story.
3 - Since they are left to right (see 2), the left symbols should be read before the right symbols for symbols next to eachother. (If these were rows, the top one would be read before the bottom ones).


Here is a link to a hi-res image. Very, very high-res (15000x15000 ... not a typo). That was my starting point. I shrink these full size images of the whole canvas to 1500x1500.

Original Image - 21 columns across (in case that matters)

I (and others on the internet it seems) noticed some patterns. I wish I had looked online first before making these colored boxes to show the repeated segments, because it took forever. I'm confident that these are the segments, as not only do they repeat, but at the tops and bottoms of these repeated patterns, the image has cracks and breaks in the background tablet... like they were all stitched together in place.


It appears on first glance to be a random assortment of 6 different sections. I do not know if they are real hieroglyphics, or Assassin's Creed versions. The may simply tell Assassin's Creed stories in a hieroglyphic form. That's what we are here to find out. Below I will post images of the 6 glyph stories in order of number of (partial) times it shows up in the full image, just so we have a common labelling system to talk about them. 6/23: They appear to be real hieroglyphics. All symbols that make up the full sections are real.


Glyph A
pink outlines

26 full or partial instances in full image


Glyph B
red outlines

25 full or partial instances in full image


Glyph C
yellow outlines

17 full or partial instances in full image


Glyph D
green outlines

16 full or partial instances in full image

Solved below: Nothing is true; everything is permitted.
solved by: Gerund


Glyph E
white outlines

10 full or partial instances in full image (top of column 9 should be partial white)

Solved below: Work in the darkness to serve the light.
solved by: Double McStab with Cheese


Glyph F
cyan outlines

4 full or partial instances in full image


I will eventually post side by side images labelling all the individual glyphs so we can speak a common language. I'll also be posting some common sequences between the glyphs and if certain glyphs seem to follow other ones. I'll then begin to go through the individual glyphs to see what the translations could be.

If there's anything we know about these Ubisoft guys, it's that they love to throw data and clues in where you don't expect it. The patterns and numbers/positions of the sequences may matter as well as the images themselves; so we have to try everything.

I'll update this original post if anything gets "solved" sufficiently. Basically, this first post will be a resource of all things related to these glyphs until we solve them. I'm posting now so that everyone can get a look at it... get your creative juices flowing.

changelog:
Jun-21-2017: originally posted with pictures of the full background and the 6 individual glyphs A-F
Jun-21-2017: fixed Glyph B to have correct image
Jun-21-2017: Glyph E solution added
Jun-23-2017: Glyph D solution added; strikethrough added to no longer relevant text

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

SOLVED GLYPH E

Work in the darkness to serve the light.

Key glyph translations:






Now that we know ONE of them is part of the Assassin's Creed, I'm pretty sure we can figure out the rest before this weekend is up.

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

gerund's picture
gerund
Offline
Citizen
male
The Netherlands
Joined: 10/29/2012

OOOOOH NICE! That's really fucking cool.

I don't think my linguistics degree will help here Tongue , but I will definitely be checking back on this thread from time to time. I'm kind of busy finishing my thesis.

btw, what are those translation screenshots from? Because that's definitely the way to go if you want to solve these.


Steam & Uplay: jeroenaantjes

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

I'm using a simple hieroglyphics dictionary on my phone.

Other possibilities to look for:
Stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent.
Hide in plain sight, be one with the crowd. (I think this is Glyph C. Will work on finishing this solution next).
Never compromise the Brotherhood.
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

gerund's picture
gerund
Offline
Citizen
male
The Netherlands
Joined: 10/29/2012
Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

I'll be amazed if that's NOT in there. It's gotta be.


Steam & Uplay: jeroenaantjes

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

Glyph C progress.

The main resource I (and everyone else as far as I can tell) use is Gardiner's hieroglyphic sign list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gardiner%27s_sign_list

So let's break down the symbols in Glyph C.

O4
N35
N35
D1
A2
T28
D21
Z4
V28
N35
D36
N37
D58
X1
Z9
Z2
Y1

Which are organized
O4:N35 (O4 on top of N35)
N35
D1-A2 (D1 next to A2)

Let's stop there, because there are many possibilities...
O4:N35 translates to If or Box/Chest or Follower/Associates, definitely possible
O4-N35:N35 translates to fallow deer, probably not it. also, this is not exactly as drawn, as drawn is O4:N35:N35
O4:N35-N35:D1-A2 translates to Attend to or consider. this is also not exactly as drawn. As drawn, it would be N35-D1-A2 (to make it N35:D1-A2, you would have to move N35 to be over just D1 and not A2). [u]I think this one is correct anyway[u], or correct enough. feel free to disagree.

Why do I think this is correct? Because the other option here is O4:N35 followed by some combo of N35 then D1 then A2. If we assume that the simpler one is correct, there's no reasonable combination of N35-D1-A2, nor even a D1-A2 translation reported (in my simple dictionary).

So the beginning of glyph C is

Next section
T28-D21:Z4

While there is no translation for this sequence, there IS T28:D21-Z4:

Next section is straightforward: V28-N35:D36

Finally, we have N37-D58-X1:Z9-Z2-Y1. The closest match I could find was N37-D58-X1:Z9-Y1:Z2 (simply moving the order of the last two glyphs). There is no independent combo of Y1 and Z2 with which to explore the different orders. But from what I've seen going through this translation dictionary, is that sometimes exact order and placement doesn't matter (but sometimes it does).

Unfortunately this one makes no sense, with the above ones.

But there are lots of other options using these symbols too.
N37-D58-Z9: mix, mingle with
N37-D58-N35:Z9:Y1: mingle, consort with, together with, various
D58-X1:U30-G1-X1:Z9-Y1-Z2: harm, injury (added symbols in this one)

So we now have:
Attend to the suffering, together ... something something, potentially mingling harming or remuneration.

thoughts?

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012
gerund wrote:
Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

I'll be amazed if that's NOT in there. It's gotta be.

Both D and F start with a negative. So it's likely one of those...

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012
Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
gerund wrote:
Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

I'll be amazed if that's NOT in there. It's gotta be.

Both D and F start with a negative. So it's likely one of those...

Probably F

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

Nope. F is really interesting though. It's either a warning to not go to where the water divides, OR a prophesy of someone needing to make a sacrifice. WILL BAYEK KILL HIMSELF AT THE END???


Test 1:

NO / THIS


MAN

ENTER

WATER???

DIVISION???

DO NOT GO INTO THE NILE DELTA?
NO MAN SHALL ENTER WHERE THE WATER DIVIDES?

WHAT??


Attempt 2:

other symbols, slightly different...

SACRIFICE

THIS SON SENT TO SACRIFICE... ??? what?

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

SO CLOSE YET SO FAR!

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

gerund's picture
gerund
Offline
Citizen
male
The Netherlands
Joined: 10/29/2012
Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
Attend to the suffering, together ... something something, potentially mingling harming or remuneration.

[Consider/mind] the [suffering/damage] of the [mingling/group]

Never compromise the Brotherhood

Or am I reaching here? It doesn't include the final section (value). And it would make sense for there to be a negation in here somewhere, either in a temporal way (never, at no time) or as a prohibition or negative command (don't). Maybe the Egyptians had a way of communicating a tenet like this without a negation, for example by using 'consider', 'mind', 'take care', 'be careful' etc.

Alternatively:

[Consider] being [a part of] the [togetherness/group] and its [value/price]

Remember the value of the Brotherhood you're a part of


Steam & Uplay: jeroenaantjes

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

Other glyphs have distinct "negations" at the start of them... F and D. In fact, D has 3 negations within itself, depending on how the glyphs break... That said, I don't think we need to interpret negations that aren't exactly there.

Maybe it's more along the lines of "Associate with the poor, there's worth in mingling." ie, Hide in plain sight (among the lower class) and be one with the crowd.

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

One more note: every symbol is a legitimate ancient egyptian hieroglyphic (in the Gardiner tables). That does not mean that they aren't manipulated to look pictorially like things out of AC though. But I suspect they are not after being able to solve Glyph E as written.

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

Started working on the long one, B.

M17-Y5:N35-N5:Z1-A40 is Amun Re. The king of the gods. The Ptolomeic (time period of ACO) equivalent of Zeus.

However, M17-Y5:N35 alone can also translate to secret. and N5 is Sun/Day, Z1 is One/Son, and A40-A43 (this one actually looks like A43B) is King, or King of Upper Egypt. So maybe the Secret Son of the King, or Secret Son of The Day King/Gods could also be a translation for this. [Bayek, a son of the king, living amongst the poor (see glyph C discussion above)?] Basically, when taken together, these could be a nod toward the First Civilization DNA living amongst the people/poor. The Secret Son of a God?

However, most likely, this simply translates to Amun Re, but it's good to have alternative translations.

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

more Glyph B progress... help with interpretation desired.

My best guess is that it's a prayer to Amun Re (see above for the first glyph reasoning).

I think most likely is:

M17-Y5/N35-N5/Z1-A40
AA1/D43-G43-Y1A
N35
M17-N35/V31
S29-Y5/N35/Y1
A1
U4-D36
X1/Y1

OR
...
U5/D36-X1-Y1 (plus or minus a symbol)

This gives:
Amun Re
protector
of
my
order
I
offer
my share

or

protector of my order and the truth
i protect man from the truth
protect the truth and the innocent

something like that... any thoughts?

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

DarkAlphabetZoup's picture
DarkAlphabetZoup
Offline
Citizen
male
Toronto, Canada
Joined: 12/30/2009

That is super sick... Wikipedia says, "The name Amun (written imn) meant something like "the hidden one" or "invisible".[5]"

Assassin's Creeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

gerund's picture
gerund
Offline
Citizen
male
The Netherlands
Joined: 10/29/2012
Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
more Glyph B progress... help with interpretation desired.

My best guess is that it's a prayer to Amun Re (see above for the first glyph reasoning).

I think most likely is:

M17-Y5/N35-N5/Z1-A40
AA1/D43-G43-Y1A
N35
M17-N35/V31
S29-Y5/N35/Y1
A1
U4-D36
X1/Y1

OR
...
U5/D36-X1-Y1 (plus or minus a symbol)

This gives:
Amun Re
protector
of
my
order
I
offer
my share

or

protector of my order and the truth
i protect man from the truth
protect the truth and the innocent

something like that... any thoughts?

The way I interpret 'order' as in the literal translation is synonymous to 'command', and I think you'r eusing order in your interpretation as synonymous to 'Brotherhood'.

I think you're warm with the prayer angle though.

Amun Re protect [set of pronouns] ensure I [ambiguos verb] right(eous)

"Amun Re, protect me (and what's mine) and ensure I do the righteous thing."

"Amun Re, protect me and you(?) and ensure I am fair/righteous/steering the right way."

or we could forfeit the prayer and go a bit more ominous:

"Amun Re equips me and orders me to make a sacrifice."

Either way, great work, McStab!


Steam & Uplay: jeroenaantjes

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

I think you're right. The reason I interpreted "order" as "something that exists" is that the definition it belongs to is actually "Mainstay (of land)/confirmation (of [something])/order" ... almost like a deed to property.

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

Maybe we should retcon the sayings...

translate "permitted" or "allowed" into hieroglyphics and see if it's at the end of any of them for "Everything is permitted."

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

gerund's picture
gerund
Offline
Citizen
male
The Netherlands
Joined: 10/29/2012
Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
Maybe we should retcon the sayings...

translate "permitted" or "allowed" into hieroglyphics and see if it's at the end of any of them for "Everything is permitted."

That could work.

For permit/allow most translations I'm seeing seem to involve a narrow triangle, like an upward pointing spike. Either loose (X8) or in a hand (D37). I'm not seeing any of those, sadly.

I'll look around some more.


Steam & Uplay: jeroenaantjes

gerund's picture
gerund
Offline
Citizen
male
The Netherlands
Joined: 10/29/2012

Glyph D: Nothing is true, everything is permitted

I'm almost certain. You can look these codes up, I'm using the same app as you.

Starts with arms going both ways and water (D35:N35). Meaning not, no.

Then: semi-circle, sled, owl (X1:U15-G17). Besides a negation of the sentence, this can mean everything, all.
--> this section is repeated later on!

Then a bit of deviation in the placement, but it looks like arm, half-gauss curve, sharp-beaked bird, two drinking straws, parchment (D36:N29-G1-T14-T14-Y1). Meaning trueness, correctness.

Then the repeated X1:U15-G17, meaning everything, all.

Finally, walking cane, owl, rabbit, water, eating man (S29-G17-E34:N35-A2), meaning probably, certainly.

Not one thing is true, everything is probable. Mold that a bit and you get our favorite Assassin saying!


Steam & Uplay: jeroenaantjes

gerund's picture
gerund
Offline
Citizen
male
The Netherlands
Joined: 10/29/2012
gerund wrote:
Maybe the Egyptians had a way of communicating a tenet like this without a negation, for example by using 'consider', 'mind', 'take care', 'be careful' etc.

Although it doesn't seem to be relevant, what I wrote above turns out to be true, for those interested: A47-G1-G1-A24-U33-M17-D2:Z1 = beware, take care not to X, be sure you don't X. This sequence doesn't appear anywhere though.


Steam & Uplay: jeroenaantjes

gerund's picture
gerund
Offline
Citizen
male
The Netherlands
Joined: 10/29/2012

Glyph A starts with "allow", I think.

I can't find the sequence M36:D21-X1:Z4 (potted plant, open wound, semi circle, double backslash) on its own, but I did find it with an owl in front (G17), with the whole thing meaning "do not allow". G17 on its own means "do not" (among other things), so by subtraction, the start of glyph A means "allow".

Edit: Disregard that, there's a semicircle in that sequence that's not in glyph A. Don't know how I didn't see that.

Dammit, I got sucked into the puzzles again!


Steam & Uplay: jeroenaantjes

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012
gerund wrote:
Glyph D: Nothing is true, everything is permitted

I'm almost certain. You can look these codes up, I'm using the same app as you.

Starts with arms going both ways and water (D35:N35). Meaning not, no.

Then: semi-circle, sled, owl (X1:U15-G17). Besides a negation of the sentence, this can mean everything, all.
--> this section is repeated later on!

Then a bit of deviation in the placement, but it looks like arm, half-gauss curve, sharp-beaked bird, two drinking straws, parchment (D36:N29-G1-T14-T14-Y1). Meaning trueness, correctness.

Then the repeated X1:U15-G17, meaning everything, all.

Finally, walking cane, owl, rabbit, water, eating man (S29-G17-E34:N35-A2), meaning probably, certainly.

Not one thing is true, everything is probable. Mold that a bit and you get our favorite Assassin saying!

GLYPH D SOLVED BY GERUND

Nothing is true; everything is permitted.

Key glyph translations:






GREAT JOB GERUND! I'm glad someone else is giving these a shot!

Note: that app we're using doesn't have all the glyphs for some of them, sadly...

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

aurllcooljay's picture
aurllcooljay
Offline
Citizen
male
At Thehiddenblade.com. Where else?
Joined: 06/13/2010
Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
This gives:
Amun Re
protector
of
my
order
I
offer
my share

or

protector of my order and the truth
i protect man from the truth
protect the truth and the innocent

something like that... any thoughts?

Sounds kind of like the Templar's Creed:

"Uphold the principles of our Order and all that for which we stand.
Never share our secrets nor divulge the true nature of our work.
Do so until death, no matter the cost."

JoeyFogey's picture
JoeyFogey
Offline
Administrator
male
Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 02/16/2010

You guys are too smart for me.

NEW Youtube channel!
- Joey Fogey Art

PSN: JoeyFogey

Twitch Livestream channel: http://www.twitch.tv/joeyfogey

Instagram: joeyfogey

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

I think I've solved Glyph A well enough.

I think it translated loosely to the english idiom The ends justify the means.

The first part is the one that doesn't really fit exactly, but if you get rid of the bird, maybe... or change Z4 (double slash) to Z1 (single bar)...

The next one is clearly justification:

And the final one is execution, or stride/traverse - ie, how you get something done.

This idiom tends to fit the Assassin's as well. The means they use are murderous, but for what they feel is a good reason.

I won't mark this as solved until we can discuss it further or if Gerund wants to look through and see if there are other definitions I'm missing that might work.

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012
gerund wrote:
Edit: Disregard that, there's a semicircle in that sequence that's not in glyph A. Don't know how I didn't see that.

Gotta take some liberties! Things aren't always in the order Ubisoft put them in, as evidenced by the very first one that I'm confident about (see the final glyph for light as drawn in the app and the actual glyph). Sometimes things are in the slightly wrong order or turned sideways in order to fit and be aesthetically pleasing, too.

Dammit, I got sucked into the puzzles again!

My thoughts as well. I wake up, check THB to see if there's any progress, sit down and try to solve one.

on to glyph B!

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

gerund's picture
gerund
Offline
Citizen
male
The Netherlands
Joined: 10/29/2012

Disregard what I said before about glyph A starting with 'allow'. There's a semicircle that I included, but that's not in the glyph.

Your translation of A looks alright to me. It makes sense as an assassin's idiom, but I'm still a little torn.

The 'end' in the English idiom is synonymous to 'goal', 'objective'. The way I interpret the 'end' in the translation is in more of a temporal or spatial or quantificational way: the end of the day, the end of the cliff, the end of the supplies. It could be that those are related and that by removing the yellow chick you get the meaning 'goal', but that's speculation on my part.

The 'justify' part in the middle might be prone to changing interpretation once we identify what the first and last parts are exactly. It could be 'honor' or 'bless'.

The last part should absolutely be 'stride', 'pace', 'traverse', 'steps' etc. 'Execution' makes more sense in the context of the English idiom, but I'm not so sure that's it. I think we can be most certain of the last part having to do with stepping, walking, moving somewhere, etc. Maybe we can try reverse engineering it from there.

Anybody know any idioms, sayings, quotes etc involving step, stride, pace or related words at the end?


Steam & Uplay: jeroenaantjes

Double McStab with Cheese's picture
Double McStab w...
Offline
Citizen
male
San Diego, CA
Joined: 03/29/2012

i edited the "end" glyph without the bird... but you need to change the \\ to | ... but since both have the same definitions, it really doesn't matter.

so
END, LIMIT
or
SINCE THE BEGINNING
or
ORIGINALLY

and if you think of steps, stride, traverse... I think of it more as MEANS (of travel) or something like that - in the literal sense... or STEPS (you take to accomplish something)

"Victorian values meant brutalizing people who were often poor." - Charles Palliser

gerund's picture
gerund
Offline
Citizen
male
The Netherlands
Joined: 10/29/2012
Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
and if you think of steps, stride, traverse... I think of it more as MEANS (of travel) or something like that - in the literal sense... or STEPS (you take to accomplish something)

Yeah I guess I can see that. Maybe I was doubting the translation for no reason. It does sound plausible after all.


Steam & Uplay: jeroenaantjes