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Altair's fate?

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YurkleNorf's picture
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So I've been having an argument with someone over on GameFAQs about Altair being alive or dead.

I say he's dead, the other person says he's alive.

The Codex ends on Page 30 with this:


And so I have begun to wonder - might there not be a way to stop - or at least delay - death's embrace? Surely the ones who came before were not so frail and feeble as we. But I have sworn to be done with the artifact. To not gaze into its core. Still: faced as I am with the prospect of my end, what harm is there in one last look...

which is utterly ambiguous on two different levels:

  • Whether or not Altair succumbed to the temptation to look into the Apple once more
  • If he did look into the Apple, if he did or did not find the secret to extend his life or grant him immortality.

Now, obviously this Codex page can be interpreted a couple different ways, but there's certainly more evidence pointing towards Altair's death than there is for him to be alive still.

We have his statement from Page 26 that shows he doesn't want to look into the Apple ever again, that he'd be tempted to do so if he kept it near.

Now the biggest problem is that we don't have a tomb for Altair in Italy, and this was brought up by the other person. However, we have to remind ourselves of just how important to the Assassins Altair was - without his will, they'd have been corrupted and destroyed by Al Mualim, a Templar who had managed to infiltrate the order and reach the highest level. Altair, with his knowledge and the help of Malik, managed to rebuild the Assassins in the wake of Al Mualim's betrayal, and by this we can see a sort of father figure in him.

If Altair is dead, then why would the Assassins want to desecrate his body, his tomb, by moving it hundreds of miles away? They already have the Codex and the Apple, there's no need to take his body as well.

In addition, of the known Piece's of Eden, only one is presumed to have any life-giving abilities, and that's the Shroud of Turin. And Altair didn't have that Piece, and I doubt he had ever actually heard of it. Not to mention there's nothing about it that says there's life-preserving power in the Shroud - it can heal wounds, ailments, and possibly resurrect people, but nothing says it can actually extend someone's life.

And then we come to Minerva's people. Obviously, since they created the Pieces of Eden, they'd know how to work them more than any "puny human mind" could. There's nothing she says that gives off the impression that they're immortal beings, though. If they were immortal, they wouldn't just fade out and all die away. The Minerva program (I view that as a sort of... interactive hologram/computer AI loading of her personality) claims she was the last of her kind. We also know that the war between the humans and Minerva's people was over after the Cataclysm. So, there was no conflict there, except for petty squabbles here there, I'd imagine. The sort of thing that the old myths come from.

All these things combine to show (in my opinion) that Altair is dead. I just see no evidence that points toward him actually being alive.

So, my question for you all is two fold: do you think that Altair looked into the Apple one more time, and if so, do you think he actually found the secrets to extend his life/grant him immortality?

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i've been thinking about that codex page too. and i believe that it will have a singificant part to play later on.
just cause every time you see someone say that one last look can't hurt, it will most certainly hurt.

i highly doubt that it will make him immortal though, but it will do something.

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I believe that Altair is very dead. Beyond the fact that an immortal character would make the series even less realistic, and the fact that only one vague hint supports that theory, there's the logistics of it - even if there was a way to let Altair live on that The Ones Who Came Before knew of, what are the chances that Altair has the resources to implement it in the thirteenth century? Not to mention that every other user of any Piece of Eden is dead.

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I don't know. Based on prior evidence I still don't believe he actually looked into the Apple again. Especially considering an earlier statement from Page 30, where he says that he can feel his time growing short.

It's not clear whether he was ill or if he was just really old, but either way it wouldn't exactly have been an easy journey for him to make from Masyaf (where I'd imagine he still was, considering he took on the role of leader of the Assassins) to Cyprus. We're talking over a hundred miles by both land and sea. Certainly something I wouldn't want to do if I were old and ill as that statement suggests.

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I have seen absolutely nothing in the game that even suggests that Altair is still alive.

First of all, nothing in the game suggests immortality at all. The first civilization were certainly long-lived, but not immortal. If they weren't immortal, why would anyone believe they had technology which could make someone immortal? Wouldn't they have used it on themselves first and foremost?

If immortality was even a possibility, you can bet your ass it would have been alluded to in Subject 16's history lessons about the usage of PoE's throughout history. Furthermore, I would think that would become one of Abstergo's key goals to obtain, yet nothing in any of their many emails even hints at such a possibility. Remember how easily they dismissed the Holy Grail?

Another thing to consider is that if Altair is still alive, why don't the Assassins know about it? Where is he? What is he doing? Why is he hiding away instead of fighting against the Templars? Why wouldn't he be molding future Assassins throughout history and using his centuries of experience to advise them?

What about family? Why would Altair inflict immortality on himself but not his wife and two sons? He doesn't seem that selfish. If anything, he would probably use it on them first, before on himself. And supposed all four were made immortal. Why wouldn't he then make his grandchildren immortal? Surely he loved them and wanted to protect them. So where would this stop? Where to draw the line? Wherever such a line might be, I don't believe it was only after using it on himself. If it was just a one-use thing (which is a ridiculous idea in itself), why not use it on a loved one rather than on oneself?

Hearing "Altair is alive!" reminds me far too much of the same claims made about Elvis Presley. There is no evidence. It's pure conjecture. And that's just silly.

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I'll go with Asaic on this one. How could Altair be alive if not even Those Who Came Before, the creators of the artifacts, were inmortal. The fact that people say that Altair is alive seems cliche to me, as if the writers were going to ruin a great story that the already build up in a great way, in such a way in the third installment. They are not the writers of the Godfather.

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ROB_88 wrote:
[On the meaning of BAMF]i figured it was something similar to a MILF

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That's what I was saying. Basically my argument is everything that I mentioned in this thread...

Here's the thread, by the way.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=956858&topic=53449098

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Thank god I'm no longer in Gamefaqs, I grew tired of dealing with that kind of douches.
"I'll hold that over you when I'm right." < FLAE&#039;s eye roll Yeah right.

JoeyFogey wrote:
ROB_88 wrote:
[On the meaning of BAMF]i figured it was something similar to a MILF

Babes Await My..............Flap-a-doodle Laughing out loud

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Yeah. Thankfully people like him are for the most part few and far between, but when they do show up... it's annoying as all hell. It's like arguing with a fundamentalist. They just don't listen to reason.

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YurkleNorf wrote:
Yeah. Thankfully people like him are for the most part few and far between, but when they do show up... it's annoying as all hell. It's like arguing with a fundamentalist. They just don't listen to reason.

The difference is, a Fundamentalist should be admired for their devotion to their God, the idiots on GameFaqs shouldn't lol.

Getting back on topic, what I think, is that he sucumbed to temptation, he looked into the POE. However, I don't think Those Who Came before would have wanted the PoE to grant their slaves immortality so I would imagine it kills him.

Thanks to SBIzokronus for the fantastic sig!

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I'll play Devils advocate for a minute

Maybe it's only something that prevents oneself from dieing a "natural" death. As in you could still be killed in battle, or a big explosion. Once per artifact, or until the current user dies. As to why he would use it on himself I don't think even Altair would be strong enough to resist the sensation of dieing, and knowing that Maria, (or whoever) would still be living on forever, alone.

All that said I still agree with you guys lol

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Here's another thing to consider. We will assume that Altaïr wore The Armor of Altaïr, yes? If that is the case, if he were still alive, why wouldn't he still be wearing it some 300 years later? I'm going to assume that he kept it with him until he died, and that it was recovered by Mario's great grandfather from his grave in the Holy Land sometime after Altaïr's death during the 1200s.

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I'm sure Altair did look into it one last time. I'm also sure its going to play, at the very least, a small role in AC3.

But as for the immortality thing, that's just silly. Those Who Came Before weren't even immortal, so why would they have the answers to immortality? They may have had the answers to prolonging one's life, but certainly not immortality.

As for what his fate was, I remember one of the Codex pages saying that he went to fight Genghis Khan with his children. Maybe that's where he died, in the Far East.

For special occasions...

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Al Mualim's Words:

"My men do not fear death, Robert, they welcome it!"

So why would Altaïr try to delay death if it's acceptance as an inevitability is part of the creed?

Tell him that, Bobby. See what Kyle *cough* douche *cough* thinks.

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Update: We're at it again.

I quoted hewkii's, Asaic's, and Lairfan's posts.

He literally just said this:

Your friends seem to think Immortality means Ever Living absolutely. It can also mean someone who lives an unconventionally long time.

That quote goes against every definition of immortal... ever.

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YurkleNorf wrote:
He literally just said this:

Your friends seem to think Immortality means Ever Living absolutely. It can also mean someone who lives an unconventionally long time.

That quote goes against every definition of immortal... ever.

He's obviously trying to save face having no points left to counter your argument. Big smile

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Obviously, since it's been almost half an hour and he hasn't responded to my last post, in which I called him out for that.

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How bad, maybe he is new to the AC forums on Gamefaqs, I think everybody knows in there that it's impossible to win an argument against you.

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ROB_88 wrote:
[On the meaning of BAMF]i figured it was something similar to a MILF

Babes Await My..............Flap-a-doodle Laughing out loud

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james89 wrote:
How bad, maybe he is new to the AC forums on Gamefaqs, I think everybody knows in there that it's impossible to win an argument against you.

I almost did, once. >.>


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1001Human wrote:
I almost did, once. >.>

Lol. Good times >_>

But seriously, kyle is one of those people that just annoy the heck out of me. Sure we may not have any solid "facts" pointing one way or another, but his unwillingness to accept that the evidence that we do have stacks against him... gah.

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1001Human wrote:
james89 wrote:
How bad, maybe he is new to the AC forums on Gamefaqs, I think everybody knows in there that it's impossible to win an argument against you.

I almost did, once. >.>

I tried too many times, and failed.

JoeyFogey wrote:
ROB_88 wrote:
[On the meaning of BAMF]i figured it was something similar to a MILF

Babes Await My..............Flap-a-doodle Laughing out loud

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YurkleNorf wrote:
1001Human wrote:
I almost did, once. >.>

Lol. Good times >_>

But seriously, kyle is one of those people that just annoy the heck out of me. Sure we may not have any solid "facts" pointing one way or another, but his unwillingness to accept that the evidence that we do have stacks against him... gah.

Some people are incapable of seeing two sides to an opinion and respecting them both. Those are typically the ppl that don't last long on this or any other 'intelligent' forum...haha That's why there are forums like Gamefaqs and Ubi. (No! What would give you the impression I'm biased?)

P.S. All of you brought up such good ideas, I really couldn't add or argue with this topic...but it was interesting reading.

Here's to you as good as you are. Here's to me as bad as I am. As bad as I am, and as good as you are, I'm as good as you are, as bad as I am.

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Altiar is still alive i have proof

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He appears in the secret ending to ass creed 2

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kid finish ac revelations OH LOOK AN Answer O_O *shock*


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Ending of AC Revelations shows you what actually happens.

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jazza654 wrote:
He appears in the secret ending to ass creed 2

That sounds like a bad porno starring Ezio.

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To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which

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Fly Like an Eagle wrote:
jazza654 wrote:
He appears in the secret ending to ass creed 2

That sounds like a bad porno starring Ezio.

Maybe that's what he used the Apple for.

The Templars were framed.

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Altair stuck his hidden blade into Maria's apple. It was the only way to get it going.

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JoeyFogey wrote:
Altair stuck his hidden blade into Maria's apple. It was the only way to get it going.

-_- /facepalm Urrgghh... Well played.

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Would Desmond have to use Empty hand button or Armed hand when reenacting these memories? Big smile

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Ohh gawwwd.. >.<

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altair died unhappy ...he never tasted chick fil a

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which

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Okay, EA, you got me with that one. Tongue

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ACR was probably one of the better written AC games of the series. Besides the ending. It felt like they wanted to tell us everything as soon as you finished the final memory. Why not give us everything gradually and end the Ezio discovery with the biggest reveal of all?

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Sorry to revive this topic, except that...

jazza654 wrote:
He appears in the secret ending to ass creed 2

In Fable Anniversary (basically the extended version of Fable with improved graphics, achievements, other stuff and on the Xbox 360) there are two achievements that caught my eye: Ass Creed and There is No Spoon.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/xbox360/717914-fable-anniversary/cheats