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AC: Forsaken

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A topic to discuss the journal of Haytham Kenway. There are a lot of plot holes that are filled in this book that we've questioned from our playthroughs of the main game. I'll throw some bits out there...

Spoiler: Highlight to view

- Haytham didn't know Achilles before AC3 (he know of him, but not personally; they never really met).
- Haytham's hidden blade was stolen from an Assassin named Miko, who is the man you kill in the theater in the beginning of the game.
- Haytham learns about Connor's existence through Charles and his other Templar friends when they open up about the day they approached the Mohawk village. More details allow Haytham to link everything together. Granted, he assumes all of this until he meets him in person.
- Charles and the other Templars knew about Ziio and Haytham's love affair.
- Haytham saved Connor at the execution.

Anyone that has questions that could be answered by this book, ask away!

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Are these books only available on the internet? Cause i've looked through barnes & noble, and other book stores, a countless amount of times.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which

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They should be available in stores. I've seen plenty of soft covers at book stores around my area. I bought mine for my phone though.

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That last one seems incredibly inconsistent with the game...

“Force has no place where there is need of skill." Herodotus

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Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
That last one seems incredibly inconsistent with the game...

Last what? Chapter? Book?

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Last act of Haytham saving Connor during his execution.

Well...in a sense, yes. This is due to their conflicting ideologies less-than-stellar interactions. But deep down, Haytham still loves his son and wants him to see the error of his ways.

What's should be everyone's mind is why this information isn't in the game to begin with?

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Vesferatu wrote:
Last act of Haytham saving Connor during his execution.

Well...in a sense, yes. This is due to their conflicting ideologies less-than-stellar interactions. But deep down, Haytham still loves his son and wants him to see the error of his ways.

What's should be everyone's mind is why this information isn't in the game to begin with?

Laziness.

Also,i heard this book spoils the ending of ACIV.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which

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Vesferatu wrote:
Last act of Haytham saving Connor during his execution.

Well...in a sense, yes. This is due to their conflicting ideologies less-than-stellar interactions. But deep down, Haytham still loves his son and wants him to see the error of his ways.

What's should be everyone's mind is why this information isn't in the game to begin with?

Not only ideology, but didn't the game show assassin recruits walking the roofs of New York and taking out guards, and Achilles handing Connor his tomahawk? What does Haytham have to do with all that?

"...and if I had no self-awareness, I think I'd know."

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well... i WAS trying to keep it in spoilers Tongue

but as Gerund mentions.... all of Connor's assassin recruits were present... Achilles tells him that he is not alone... Connor gives the whistle signal for rescue, which he uses for his recruits... given all this, that last spoiler seems incredibly inconsistent with the game.

“Force has no place where there is need of skill." Herodotus

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Except that Haytham notices one of the recruits in a window with a bow and arrow (or crossbow...pretty sure it was a bow and arrow though). He mentions how it was shot at the rope but didn't cut, so Haytham instinctively throws a knife at the rope to help it break entirely, letting Connor down. Remember: Forsaken is from Haytham's point of view.

I'm confused still what you guys aren't sure about the consistencies with the book versus the game. They're from different points of view that sometimes intermingle.

About the ACIV spoiler? The game will be about Edward Kenway before he's rich and settled in Queen Anne's Square. Forsaken takes place years after ACIV, so it's hard to spoil plot points with the game unless you're shocked that Edward fathered a child?

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Oh ok cause i heard from a video game website that apparently:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Haytham kills Edward. But now that i think about it, it sounds abit far-fetched..

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humor is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which

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EzioAltair17 wrote:
Oh ok cause i heard from a video game website that apparently:

Spoiler: Highlight to view
Haytham kills Edward. But now that i think about it, it sounds abit far-fetched..

That's definitely wrong. Laughably wrong.

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JoeyFogey wrote:
I'm confused still what you guys aren't sure about the consistencies with the book versus the game. They're from different points of view that sometimes intermingle.

I understand things being from different points of view.

Taking this new information into account, I replayed the memory in question today. My opinion is still not changed. It is still incredibly inconsistent with everything in that memory. For starters, in EVERY other major part where the Templars are spying on Connor (think the Tea Party) they are all together and they make sure to make eye contact with Connor... Haytham NEVER shows up in Connor's line of sight at any point. Even after Hickey is dead you briefly see Lee, but still no Haytham. Of course, this doesn't mean he wasn't there, so let's let this one pass for a second.

JoeyFogey wrote:
He mentions how it was shot at the rope but didn't cut, so Haytham instinctively throws a knife at the rope to help it break entirely, letting Connor down.

Not possible. There was NO time between the signal being given (which is between Connor and his recruits, not a signal Haytham is privy to) and Connor falling all the way to the ground in the memory. Unless Haytham threw his knife such that it got there at the same time as the arrow miss which he is responding to, it's not possible. He doesn't drop slightly after a partial cut. There is no delay from a miss leading to more time for Haytham to respond.

1 - There is no indication of Haytham being at the execution.
2 - There is no time for him to respond to a partial arrow hit before Connor falls.
3 - He makes no mention of it later in the game. (This seems like the kind of leverage that Haytham would use to get Connor to do his bidding).

Again, incredibly inconsistent (even from a physics point of view) with the main story of AC3.

“Force has no place where there is need of skill." Herodotus

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Just to clarify further, I'm not saying it didn't happen, because it clearly did in the game universe.

I just wish that things like this could be consistent between stories and points of view... and this one is not, at least to me, consistent.

“Force has no place where there is need of skill." Herodotus

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Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
JoeyFogey wrote:
I'm confused still what you guys aren't sure about the consistencies with the book versus the game. They're from different points of view that sometimes intermingle.

I understand things being from different points of view.

Taking this new information into account, I replayed the memory in question today. My opinion is still not changed. It is still incredibly inconsistent with everything in that memory. For starters, in EVERY other major part where the Templars are spying on Connor (think the Tea Party) they are all together and they make sure to make eye contact with Connor... Haytham NEVER shows up in Connor's line of sight at any point. Even after Hickey is dead you briefly see Lee, but still no Haytham. Of course, this doesn't mean he wasn't there, so let's let this one pass for a second.

JoeyFogey wrote:
He mentions how it was shot at the rope but didn't cut, so Haytham instinctively throws a knife at the rope to help it break entirely, letting Connor down.

Not possible. There was NO time between the signal being given (which is between Connor and his recruits, not a signal Haytham is privy to) and Connor falling all the way to the ground in the memory. Unless Haytham threw his knife such that it got there at the same time as the arrow miss which he is responding to, it's not possible. He doesn't drop slightly after a partial cut. There is no delay from a miss leading to more time for Haytham to respond.

1 - There is no indication of Haytham being at the execution.
2 - There is no time for him to respond to a partial arrow hit before Connor falls.
3 - He makes no mention of it later in the game. (This seems like the kind of leverage that Haytham would use to get Connor to do his bidding).

Again, incredibly inconsistent (even from a physics point of view) with the main story of AC3.

Haytham wasn't around in most of Connor's adventures. He was TOLD by the other Templars about what he's been up to, either from seeing him themselves or questioning witnesses.

And saving Connor is very possible. The signal call option comes very early for Connor in the game, and most people press the button immediately. There's actually plenty of time for you to press it. In the book, Haytham wore a disguise in the crowd and was hidden among the people. Not even Charles or Hickey noticed him. He went out of curiosity.

Haytham's personality is very clear in the book. He's a very honorable and honest man. He actually felt something for Connor the more he interacted with him. Telling him that he was the real person that saved his life would just sound like gloating to Connor.

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And when you hit the signal when hanging, either at the beginning or the end of your health bar depletion, you immediately hit the ground. No time for a missed shot and a recovery knife... Bowden's timing still doesn't match up. Tongue

He actually felt something for Connor the more he interacted with him.

Fair enough... but before the execution he had only met with Connor maybe once or twice... and none were interactions.

And I guess Connor never truly believes anything Haytham says anyway. He wouldn't have believed he was there, let alone saved him.

“Force has no place where there is need of skill." Herodotus

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Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
And when you hit the signal when hanging, either at the beginning or the end of your health bar depletion, you immediately hit the ground. No time for a missed shot and a recovery knife... Bowden's timing still doesn't match up. Tongue

The timing doesn't really matter in the game. When the player presses the button, we expect to be down when we do so. That's just convenience.

To Connor, he let out a call, and a few moments later, he was let down. That's it for him. Simple.

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Joey, since I clearly have not read it, can you explain something to me about Haytham's early life...

Spoiler: Highlight to view

- Reginald Birch leads an attack on Edward's London manor, killing Edward
- Haytham's mom lets Haytham train under Reginald Birch (to become a Templar)

You can see the disconnect right there. So question is twofold...
1. Why was Haytham and his mom's relationship so strained?
2. When did Haytham's mom find out it was Reginald Birch behind the death of her husband? Did she ever?

It seems that Reginald must've lied to her in some capacity to gain access to the boy, in a similar way that Washington lied to Connor about his village.

“Force has no place where there is need of skill." Herodotus

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Double McStab with Cheese wrote:
Joey, since I clearly have not read it, can you explain something to me about Haytham's early life...

Spoiler: Highlight to view

- Reginald Birch leads an attack on Edward's London manor, killing Edward
- Haytham's mom lets Haytham train under Reginald Birch (to become a Templar)

You can see the disconnect right there. So question is twofold...
1. Why was Haytham and his mom's relationship so strained?
2. When did Haytham's mom find out it was Reginald Birch behind the death of her husband? Did she ever?

It seems that Reginald must've lied to her in some capacity to gain access to the boy, in a similar way that Washington lied to Connor about his village.

Spoiler: Highlight to view
1. Their relationship wasn't strained from the start. She was merely in shock from the murder of her husband and kidnapping of her daughter. Also, Haytham murdered a grown man in front of her as well, so she sees him in a different light. Her little boy had to become a man in an instant.
2. I don't recall the book ever mentioning her mother finding out. I know that she died while Haytham was away doing Templar business.

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Thanks. My questions were spurred by the AC-Initiates tidbit from today. It talked about the things I asked about. Thanks for answering my questions.

“Force has no place where there is need of skill." Herodotus